Listen to the podcast above, watch the video, or read the script below.

 

Dennis Collins: Today’s topic, “What are you thinking?” Well, the deal is that we human beings have the unique ability to think about our own minds and the minds of others. We make inferences. Don’t we? About what other people are thinking, what their mental states are, what they intend, how they think, what they feel, what they believe, in the hope of predicting behavior.

Leah Bumphrey: I do that with my husband all the time, and it drives him nuts because it doesn’t matter what he says. I’m pretty sure I know what he actually means.

Dennis Collins: And how often are you right?

Leah Bumphrey: Very rarely. Very rarely. It doesn’t stop me, though. As you say, that’s just what happens.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, well, you know, husband and wife and people that are together… The science is very clear on this. We have a bit more success in predicting what our partners think, but it’s not as much as you would think.

They actually did a study of couples married for at least 10 years and they asked them questions about each other. They had to fill out an assessment and I think there was like 20 questions on it or something like that. And then they took the assessment and compared it to what the other partner said.

And spouses were about 50 percent correct. Non-spouses were less than 30 percent correct. People who are not strangers, but who weren’t in a relationship. So even if we have a close relationship with somebody, but we still miss it half the time.

And we all try to guess what somebody’s thinking, how they’re feeling. Why is this important? Well, it’s a social skill. We start developing this social skill in childhood. I already see it in my four-year-old granddaughter. I already see her trying to assess what adults are thinking, and how they’re going to respond.

I mean, it starts early and you know something, it’s true. We are all mind-readers, we all are. Some of us are better than others, but most of us suck. We just don’t do it well. Let me share some research. I try to make everything science-based. It’s not Dennis or Leah talking. It’s science talking. So, Professor Dr. Nicholas Epley of the University of Chicago did research on this topic. Here’s what he found.

The problem is that the confidence we have in accurate mind reading far outstrips our actual ability even with close relatives. Our mind reading abilities are subpar at best. In other words, as I said, we suck. So how does this apply to sales?

Leah, I turn to you for that. I think you can probably help with that.

Leah Bumphrey: Well, as you said, Dennis, we pride ourselves on the ability to be able to read minds. And yet evidence shows that we’re not as good at it as we think we are. But we’re in a sales position where we are trying to control a topic honestly and control a presentation. We have a path that we’re trying to take. We need to be able to anticipate where the client is coming from. Now a lot of times it’s a legit anticipation based on previous conversations, based on our knowledge of the industry, based on a whole bunch of things. But man if I could just know exactly what was going on in that decision-maker’s head, if I can just pretend that I know, then I can keep going and I can pull him with me. It’s going to be a success and they’re going to be a success and fantastic, what a great story.

Dennis Collins: Wow, you sold me. I can remember my career in selling and sales management. You hear the same stuff over and over again. “I know what they’re thinking. I know what that means.” And how many times did I have to get slapped in the face — figuratively, of course — to see I don’t know what they mean?

There’s a technique and we’re going to talk about that. The all-too-common belief is that we know what they’re thinking. And that’s a big problem for most salespeople. We tend to react to our own thoughts, right? We think our thoughts are very typical. Some of you may remember our episode on false consensus bias.

False consensus bias, we think we are very typical and that others think and believe and act just the way we do. Wrong. We are often certain we know someone or know what someone is thinking, but our knowing is just speculation. It’s our interpretation. It’s often misguided, skewed, and wrong. Professor Daniel Kahneman, one of my favorite professors and authors, has written a ton of stuff. If you ever want to get some inspiration about how the brain works, go to Daniel. Here’s what he said. We are generally overconfident in our opinion, in our impressions and judgments, we exaggerate how knowable the world is,

Dennis Collins: So let’s talk about how this impacts sales. Well, Leah, having been a practitioner in sales for many years, I remember one of the very basic teachings that I was ever taught. You have to walk a step in your customer’s shoes.

You’ve got to understand their perspective. What’s going on in their mind? Well, not so fast, says the scientist. Science says it a little differently. Epley, Steffel, and Eyal studied this. I won’t bore you with all the citations. You can check it out if you like. However, their experiments found no evidence that considering another person’s perspective increased their ability to read someone else’s mind. That was shocking.

Leah Bumphrey: When you think of that though, you’re trying to put yourself in their shoes. There’s a lot of hubris involved in thinking that I can know exactly what it feels like, Dennis, to be in Florida living in a condo. Having a four-year-old grandson. I can’t know that.

More than you can know how it is to be a former hockey mom living in Canada who’s got to shovel snow in a couple of weeks. Like, you can’t know that. You cannot. That hubris takes over and that’s a lot of ego and that becomes the worst of the worst in sales when you think you know better,

Dennis Collins: You said it, and that’s another one of the cognitive biases that mess us up in sales. So that’s why we want to talk about this today.

What we’re trying to do is decode perhaps the most complicated and adaptive system in the whole universe. The human brain with billions of synapses. What did Epley, Steffel, and Eyal find? They did find a strategy that would help. Ask. Inquire. Don’t guess. You’re probably going to be wrong.

If you’re wondering what’s on someone’s mind, stop. Stop guessing. Pause. And directly and actively listen.

Leah Bumphrey: Okay, and I’ve got to emphasize that, Dennis, because that is the most important part of it. Actually hearing what they say, because you can ask them, but if you’ve already decided what they’re going to say and you’ve already jumped over that whole topic… Because you know, why did you ask the question? To listen — people know when they are being heard.

Dennis Collins: They do, and the highest compliment I think you can pay to a person is listening and actually hearing and confirming that you heard what they said. We’re going to do an episode on listening because, to me, that is a skill that is so often misunderstood.

And I think we will do that one later, but let’s stay with this topic today. Why do salespeople talk too much and listen too little? Well, there are some reasons for that. If you’ve heard some of our previous episodes, we discussed the self-disclosure loop. We actually get a dopamine hit when we’re talking like I am right now.

I’m getting a dopamine hit, but we get nothing when we’re listening. Ooh, many salespeople that I have found don’t know any good questions. They know some pretty poor questions and they’re afraid to ask because they’re concerned, fearful about the answer. They’re not sure if they can deal with the answer. Have you found that to be true?

Leah Bumphrey: Absolutely. They are afraid that they’re going to lose control of the sales presentation call. So we don’t want to go there. So you provide information and just keep going and going, as opposed to genuinely being interested in what the person is saying.

Dennis Collins: Well, generally, we’re very well-schooled in the features and benefits of our product.

And so the go-to is, when we feel trapped or stuck or afraid or fearful, we go to what we know, which is pitching. We’re excellent at pitching and therefore the questions get thrown out. Unless you have practiced, rehearsed, and planned a framework to ask those questions.

Leah Bumphrey: You can teach anyone a product. I don’t care what it is that you need someone to sell.

You’ve got to find the right person, not someone who is so well-versed in what it is that you’re selling, but the right person. Who is the right person? It’s the person who is genuinely trusted who can engage you in the conversation. You want the person that people are curious about. And they’re not actually curious about the person they’re curious about the conversation. Because that person is really good at getting the conversation going about everyone who’s in the group.

Dennis Collins: Great point. It’s it’s an art, isn’t it? It’s a lost art.

I don’t know. I’m not sure if it was ever found, but it is an art. I’m inspired now to do another episode on it. Most salespeople are trained to do something called the three P’s. Okay. What are the three P’s? Pump, pounce, and present. I need to get all my points in. I ask a loaded question.

“Hey, have you, would you be interested in blah, blah, blah.” They’re asking that question as a pretext to make a sales pitch. They’re not asking for information. They want to deliver a pitch. So they pump and ask the question. They pounce, “Ah. They’re interested.” Boom. They pounce. And of course, they pitch. I’ve got to get all my points in.

What does science say about the success rate of the three P’s? Pump, pounce, and present. What do you think science tells us about that?

Leah Bumphrey: I would say that it’s not a high success rate.

Dennis Collins: Quite low. Not even worth discussing. It doesn’t work. It’s actually, if you’ve built a good foundation of opening questions and doing your rapport-building and all that, and all of a sudden do the pump, pounce, and pitch, you just destroyed the foundation. You go back to zero. In fact, you go below zero because now you’re pitching again and they don’t want to hear your pitch.

Leah Bumphrey: People know you’re trying to sell them, that you don’t really care, that you’re on to the next, that you haven’t listened to them.

And that’s why, as opposed to having all the features and benefits information in your head… And yes you should know about your product. But really, what you need is a couple of questions. A couple of questions that you really care about and that are going to make the person you’re asking stop and think. I have a couple of those and you get to know them. Get to know them through this process of what it is that you have that can make a difference for them.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, and you make a good point. I don’t believe in scripts, but I do believe in frameworks. And you need to have a framework. So you have to have a framework firm in your sales brain about how you’re going to proceed with your questions. You do have to have a sequence.

That’s another topic. How do we sequence questions? Yes, we’ll do another one on that. It’s easier sometimes for a salesperson just to make assumptions. It’s hard to make a proper discovery. You have to actually be involved. You have to think. Yet the most accurate insight is going to be the thoughts, words, and beliefs of your customer.

And there’s only one way to find out. Ask. If you’ve built a deep level of trust through good rapport and connection skills, they will likely give you an answer. Let’s close out today with our ABCs. I don’t know in Canada. Do you say Z differently than we say it or something?

Leah Bumphrey: Yeah, we say it the right way.

Dennis Collins: We could have another episode on that too. But we’re going to talk today about our ABCs without the Z. Assumptions, biases, and certainty. Your ABCs.

Those are the building blocks of what we call habitual thought. We default to system one in the brain, the automatic side of the brain. The ABCs. We have assumptions. We have biases. We have certainty. It helps us kind of make sense of the world. I mean, we can’t think through everything, every situation that we come into.

That’s where the system of one brain makes things move fast. Those are the things that get in the way of deep curiosity. I’ll share a quick story. I was interviewed once by someone writing a book on sales, and they asked me the inevitable question they would ask. What is the key trait of a great salesperson?

And I think I messed up their brain. I answered it’s curiosity. They were stunned because that’s not what they hear usually. They were stunned. What is your reaction to that?

Leah Bumphrey: It reminds me of Dale Carnegie. And I think everybody should read those books. I always encourage people who do sales in any industry to read them, because he talks about the genuine interest that you have in people, in things, and what’s going on. And that helps you to stand out and it shouldn’t. It’s like good manners. It should just be common and nobody would notice it, but we notice it because it is so rare. And I think curiosity is scary for people because it shows a lack of knowledge. There’s stuff I don’t know. You might know it and I’m willing to ask you about it.

Dennis Collins: Well, that was my thinking, and I’d like to even put more behind that. Assumptions are beliefs without proof. Assumptions shut down our curiosity. Notice assumptions about others. You might think, this customer is just like every other customer. I know what they’re thinking. I know their situation and you don’t really care to dig deeper into their personal situation.

The only way to test assumptions is by asking specific questions. Hey, tell me more. That’s interesting what you said about XYZ. Can you tell me more about that?

What are biases? Do you have any biases? You probably don’t have any.

Leah Bumphrey: Oh… Don’t all Americans have guns?

Dennis Collins: Well, that’s not a bias. That’s probably a fact.

Yeah, I think you’re pretty close there.

Leah Bumphrey: That’s funny. We all have biases. And you know what? We don’t even recognize that we have them. I’m a mom of three boys. It kills me when I’m talking to people who don’t have boys and they have certain assumptions about them. How easy it is to have boys or how hard it is. It’s similar to myself around my friends with girls.

It’s like, “Oh, man. They’re messing it up because if only they knew this this and this…” I don’t have any girls. We have these ingrained beliefs because we want to know or because we think we know.

Dennis Collins: Guess what? Scientists tell us there are at least 180 cognitive biases.

One hundred eighty. Yeah, they actually keep track of these things. They’re ingrained. They’re automatic. They’re very difficult to recognize and they’re difficult to challenge, but they cloud our judgment. They affect how we perceive a sales situation because we come equipped with those biases, whether we like it or not.

Two that affect sales — a lot of them do, but I’ll mention two. Representativeness heuristic. We compare each situation to the stereotype that we already have. So we have a stereotype of what a customer looks like, and what a customer supposed is to do. And we carry that with us to every customer we meet. Bad bias.

Another one. We’ve all heard of this one, confirmation bias. Do you know that one?

Leah Bumphrey: Oh yeah. What do we do? Well, we know something to be true, so we look for something that will confirm what we’ve already decided is true. And that’s really, really easy to do because it feels comfortable. If I want to be right, I’m going to prove that I’m right.

And then when I have a story to tell my husband at the end of the day, it’s going to show that, “Oh, you know what, I thought this was the case and that was exactly right.” And boy, it costs people sales. It costs businesses customers. It costs us friends, all of these things. We make those assumptions that everybody under the age of 25 is stuck on the phone all the time.

And so we forget that that can happen, but that doesn’t mean that they are just playing video games. It doesn’t mean that they’re not available for a conversation. But man, as soon as I see that, yeah, “I knew that was the case…” and away we go.

Dennis Collins: The worst part of it is. When evidence is presented that supports an opposing view, what do we do?

We ignore it. The confirmation bias says we only look for evidence to support what we already believe. You can see how dangerous that would be in sales. What if you believe that the price that your product is selling for is ridiculous? It’s too high. How is that going to come out in sales? How will that affect your belief? So confirmation bias is very dangerous.

The third one is certainty. Okay, we had assumptions. We had biases. Now we have certainty. “I’m right and therefore I’m not interested in considering others’ opinions.” I often hear customers say this. In fact, I was listening to a recording the other day of a customer and a sales guy.

And the customer said, “Well, this is what I want…” and he was dismissed, basically. We’re not interested. Certainty. How do you see that operating?

Leah Bumphrey: Well, you know what? I have two minds with that one, Dennis. Because I need to believe something. There is such a thing as objective, this is my stand on something.

But you also have to measure that. Okay, what is this? Are we talking about a great moral truth here? Or are we talking about the difference between all seasons and putting winter tires on my car, right? I have a girlfriend and she puts winter tires on her car and she swears by it.

I won’t do that because I’m not going to spend the extra money and I think it’s a bit of a waste. But when I look at the information, there’s a lot there to substantiate what she’s saying. So I can be strong in my belief system. But man, if I’m not willing to listen to somebody else, if I’m now willing to go, “Maybe I’m incorrect about this,” then if I rear-end you at a red light, whose fault is that?

Dennis Collins: A great point. As always, it depends, doesn’t it? If this is a moral truth or something, yeah, there are some things that are certain. But we’re talking about the sales situation. If you as a salesperson believe that customers are always going to act in a particular way you don’t bother to question them. You don’t bother to ask them. You don’t bother to inquire. And therefore, you have hurt your ability to make a successful sale.

Leah Bumphrey: And sometimes the issue comes even before you’re able to engage with them, Dennis because you’ve predetermined by looking at them that that guy has no money, that guy has no interest.

They’re not going to make a decision. His shoes are not shiny enough, he can’t afford this vehicle. And we make jokes about that. And again, in pop culture, think back to, oh, what was that movie? Pretty Woman, where she was ignored. She was ignored at the start. She didn’t look right.

Now, there’s an easy way that could be avoided. Ask the question, as a salesperson. My dad has a great story. He sold cars for a number of years. And he worked way up north. And a gentleman walked in. And he didn’t look like a gentleman. And he had a braid down to his bum. He was dressed like he was ready to work.

And my dad was selling high-end vehicles. But you know what? Nobody else talked to this guy. Only my dad did. Turns out this guy bought three vehicles from my dad. He had the money. He just didn’t necessarily dress for it. He just came off the rig that he was working on. So we can dismiss people even before we get to the opportunity of asking them questions.

Dennis Collins: And we often do. The lesson here is to dig deep into your thinking. You’ve got to detach from your ABCs. These are from your assumptions, your biases, and your certainty. I’ve been doing a lot of homework on a number of topics, but one of them is deep curiosity. I am fascinated by the concept of curiosity.

How do we become curious? Are we curious from birth? There is some science that says we are and remain curious for the rest of our lives. But how do we make that useful for us in sales? So I think another episode should be how do you make a better sales career by using deep curiosity?

That’d be fun, wouldn’t it?

Leah Bumphrey: I think we’ve got a lot of talking to do, Dennis.

Dennis Collins: Boy, we’re going to be busy on this one. I hope you guys stay tuned. This is another episode of Connect & Convert, Insider Strategies for Small Business Sales Success. I’m Dennis. She’s Leah. We’ll see you next time.

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