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Dennis Collins:
Welcome to another episode of Connect and Convert, the Sales Accelerator Podcast. You know, small business owners tune in to hear secret insider stories about how to grow sales faster than ever indeed. Hi, Leah Bumphrey. How are you?

Leah Bumphrey:
Hey, Dennis. How are you? I’m good.

Dennis Collins:
Boy, you wanted to show up for this one because you heard what the topic was and you really want to get under my skin.

Leah Bumphrey:
You know what? I’ve been waiting for this. I saw it on the docket. I thought that Producer Paul was just teasing me, but this is the moment.

Dennis Collins:
This is my big moment to unveil, to be totally vulnerable and to see how you will treat me as a vulnerable person. Hey, before we get into my issues, and there are many, believe me, I think you ought to tell our listeners, Leah, about our special offer just for them.

Leah Bumphrey:
The discovery call that we have available, it’s a free discovery call.

Dennis Collins:
Free.

Leah Bumphrey:
Absolutely. Business owners, sales professionals, you have our email addresses. We will arrange a 60-minute call with you to discuss what you would like to discuss. We’re all about insider secrets for new businesses, for salespeople, for how to train, how to recruit. What is it that you want to do? Lots and lots of experience and lots of interest in helping to make a difference. For many of our clients, they call in with a question. The discovery call, which is 60 minutes of opportunity to talk to us, oftentimes it leads to other opportunities for us to work together, but take advantage.

We want to hear from you. The discovery call is Dennis and I and you on Zoom for 60 minutes. What could go wrong?

Dennis Collins:
Let’s do it. Don’t wait. Hurry. Our schedule’s filling up.

Leah Bumphrey:
I’m looking at the emails right now. Nothing yet. Back to the topic today. What are we actually talking about, Dennis?

Dennis Collins:
We’re actually talking about a career that almost ended before it ever started. Why? I have been able to learn from a lot of other people’s misery. Maybe some of our listeners can understand what this feels like and understand that it’s not the end of the world.

I’m still alive, and it’s been many years ago. Maybe you’ll see how it may have influenced the rest of my career, the rest of my life in ways that might not have happened had this moment not occurred. Does that sound intriguing, Leah?

Leah Bumphrey:
Well, it does. This is what I have to say as your official sidekick and for all of our listeners and viewers. Dennis, you are open and free with so much information. You have so much knowledge and so much personal vested interest in the success of the people that you’ve hired, that you’ve worked with, that are still working in the radio industry where you came from, and then the people that you’re now working with.

It’s really a caring attitude. So when you proposed that you wanted to share some of the not maybe the finest moments, I think that just speaks volumes about your character. So I’m here listening. I’ve got my popcorn. I’ll be interjecting and making fun a little bit because that’s just what I do.

Dennis Collins:
Oh, I know you will. I’m ready.

Leah Bumphrey:
But we want to know what you have to share with us.

Dennis Collins:
Let me set the stage. So I graduated college, and I immediately was hired by a friend of mine. He was older than I, but I was friendly with this guy. He had a medium-sized ad agency, and I really loved working at that ad agency. In college, I had been on the college radio station, which happened to be a real radio station, not a college station.

It was a real commercial radio station. So by the time I graduated college, I had done TV production, radio production. I was on the air. I was the program director of the radio station. I mean, wow, what an experience that was. So I thought I was about as, you know, I’m really at the hotshot, right? So I get into this agency, and I’m writing copy and doing TV production and radio production. And I’m the account executive on certain accounts. The owner gave me that, and I said, wow, this is fun. I’m enjoying this. I wasn’t making any money, but it was fun.

So the knock comes on the door one day. It was one of the big broadcast companies in my city, very large radio / TV company. And the sales manager, I knew all of them because I bought media from them. They came to my office and said, we want to have lunch with you.

I said, oh, okay.

Leah Bumphrey:
Who’s buying?

Dennis Collins:
Yeah, they were. And why? Because they wanted to hire me. They said, you need to become a media rep, just like the guys that call on you. And I said, you know, that’s not a bad idea. I mean, they’re driving big cars, smoking big cigars, have all kinds of pretty suits, and it sounds like a pretty good life.

I mean, don’t do it for the money, but the money ain’t bad, right? So I said, okay, but you have to understand something. I have absolutely zero idea what it means to be an account executive, a media salesperson. And it’s for two radio stations and a TV station all together.

I know radio a little bit, but I don’t know how much about TV is. Don’t worry. We’re going to train you. And this company had the resources. This was a big deal. And I said, how the heck could I not do that? So I get on board and they said, okay, like we promised, we’re going to train you. So they arranged for me to go to the big Apple to New York city for a big sales training class.

Leah Bumphrey:
If you can make it there…

Dennis Collins:
That’s what I thought. I said, man, this is the real deal. They are going to train me. So I got up to New York. I spent like a whole week there, a Monday through Friday. And there was like 12 people in this class. So it was a small class. And the guy was Mr. Brown. I’ll never forget his name, Mr. Brown. I don’t know why I remember that he was big into role plays and presentations. You know, even back in that day, ancient history, he was about, you got to get up and perform. You got to do it. So all 12 of us had to make numerous sales presentations. We had to have numerous role plays. And, you know, I thought I did a pretty good job.

Leah Bumphrey:
So I want to make sure, and I want to understand this. So you’re saying that you went to training, that there was a bunch of lecture style, informational style.

Dennis Collins:
And it was all radio and TV.

Leah Bumphrey:
And they would have you actually do role play.

Dennis Collins:
You had to do role plays.  It was pretty well organized. And, you know, I had a lot of face time. I had to speak. I had to be the customer. I had to be the salesperson. And, you know, I barely knew what to say because I had not done this, but anyway, so I’m all excited. I had a nice weekend in New York. I, you know, did some New York things. And I got on the plane on Sunday, got back and I, I walked in the office and we all were sitting in the bullpen there.

There was, I don’t know how many of us, 10 or 15 salespeople that for all three stations and the boss came over at my desk. He said, Hey, come on in. I want to talk to you for a second. And I said, Oh, okay. So I went in and he says, how’d you like New York? I said, Oh, that was fabulous. Ray. That was spectacular. Thank you for sending me. I really enjoyed it. He said, I had a chat with Mr. Brown. I said, Oh yeah. What did Mr. Brown have to say? He said, you’re not going to like this. He said that of all the trainees he’s ever had through that training class, you are probably the least likely to succeed.

Leah Bumphrey:
Ohhh. So you had just been sitting in the bullpen. So when you were sitting there, were you feeling kind of that you belonged after having a week of training?

Dennis Collins:
Yeah, man, I’m like, I’m top of the game. I’ve just been trained by this New York guy. You know, I felt pretty good about it, but apparently Mr. Brown had called my boss Ray and said, I don’t know about that Collins guy. He doesn’t have it. In fact, I just don’t see him succeeding in sales. So I guess Ray didn’t have to tell me that, I guess. I don’t know. He could have fired me, I guess he could have just not told me, but I guess I owe him a thank you for telling me. Because that, Leah, started something that has not stopped until this day. Ray said to me, look, I know you, I know what you’re made of.

I don’t know what happened up in New York, but I believe in you. Why don’t you make it your point, your mission to show that Mr. Brown was wrong. Why don’t you study everything that you can in sales? I’ll help you. There’s a million resources, you know, out there, books and tapes and videos, make it your job to become a master.

Leah Bumphrey:
So he just stood right by you.

Dennis Collins:
He did. So that’s why I say there’s a career. How many bosses would have done that? I mean, if you got this big New York sales trainer who trains all these, you know, hundreds, thousands of people, and I’m the least likely to succeed, how many bosses would have stood by that person? I can’t imagine too many.

Leah Bumphrey:
Not only standing by you, but to take the time to tell you, because you also could have gone, eh, as long as I get rid of him in the next six weeks, I’m not going to have to pay him any severance. So we’ll see what happens.

Dennis Collins:
He’ll fail. If he’s not that good, he’ll fail on his own. So let’s just let him fail and we’ll get rid of him.

Leah Bumphrey:
But he also used it as a catalyst for you because I bet you that lit a fire.

Dennis Collins:
Leah, that fire still burns today.

Leah Bumphrey:
I see a little smoke behind you there, Dennis.

Dennis Collins:
Oh, where’s my fire extinguisher? There is not a day that goes by in my life that I don’t dig into something new about leadership, communications, or sales, sometimes all three, those are my three favorite topics in the whole world.

There is no day ever in that amount of time that I haven’t learned something new that I have applied to my own life and I’ve shared with people that I coach. So he not only ignited a fire, he saved what would have been a very short career, and now here I am coaching, training, leading.

Leah Bumphrey:
Well, here’s my thought. I think that as opposed to this being your error, I think Mr. Brown was sadly mistaken. I think Mr. Brown as a coach, as a potential mentor, as someone that I would want to be giving money to, to train up my people, I don’t think he jumped to the challenge and I don’t think he acted in a very professional way.

So maybe this is less about Dennis Collins potentially not doing the deed, unless you can look back on that week and don’t tell me, but I mean, it’s New York. Maybe you slept in, maybe you cut a bunch of classes, maybe you weren’t doing—

Dennis Collins:
Now, Leah, you know me well enough. Do you think I would do that?

Leah Bumphrey:
I’m just saying, I’m just making sure for all of our listeners, for all of the people that rely on you as a professional.

Dennis Collins:
Trust me. I attended every minute of every class. I did everything they asked me to do to the best of my ability. I did not slack. You had to make some choices there too. Was Ray just making me feel good and just saying this and his intent was to maybe let it play out and let me get rid of myself or what?

I didn’t know. But all I did know is I was not going to let Ray down. And I studied. Back in those days, we didn’t have the internet, we didn’t have Google, we didn’t have a lot of the technology we have today. We had cassette tapes and discs and DVDs and audio tapes. I bought everything I could find. I became best friends with a guy named Zig Ziglar, who is one of the greatest sales trainers of all times. I became best friends with a guy named Brian Tracy, who still is there today. I read everything the guy ever wrote.

A couple of times he actually came to my city and I paid for myself to go to his seminar. It’s an all day long seminar. Fabulous. There’s a guy named Stephen Covey, the seven habits of highly effective people. He actually came to my city and did a live in-person presentation. I went to that, paid my own way to that. Everybody that I could possibly find that could help me along my journey, I did it.

Leah Bumphrey:
All of these authors and speakers that you’re talking about, they take me back because they’re so important. And now the internet is full of one minute little snippets of information. You can go on YouTube, you can go to all of these different places. You can come to podcasts and see people like us talking. But these were the giants. And they were sitting on the backs of giants. Someone like Dale Carnegie started all of this.

Dennis Collins:
And, of course, you’ve got to read Dale Carnegie.

Leah Bumphrey:
Oh, for sure. But you became a student. You became a student, which is what we’re asking of you.

Dennis Collins:
Which, you know what? I wonder if this hadn’t happened, would I have become a student of that? I don’t know. That’s an unanswerable question because I’ll never know the answer to that. All I know is that because of this, it caused me to become a student. And I am a student to this day.

Leah Bumphrey:
And it also gives you a certain empathy, Dennis, with people who maybe were not supported, maybe had a bad go with a manager, with a team, with a product, as they tried to find their way in industry, in business, in sales. These are important things. That’s why, I mean, we’re sponsored by wizardacademy.org. And the reason why we are so passionate about that is because it’s all about elevating. It’s not about this is what you can’t do. It’s about this is what you should do. This is what you must do. This is what is possible.

Dennis Collins:
Yeah. I should mention, one of the other things I started doing, I discovered Roy Williams long before there was a Wizard Academy. He was writing books, and he had his Monday Morning Memo, and he actually was traveling back then. Right now, he doesn’t do much traveling, but he came to my city several times.

And guess who was sitting in the front row? Yours truly. So a lot of what I learned was from his three books, the trilogy, from his lecturing, his speeches, that when he was out there on the road, I would go to everything I could possibly go to. And of course, Robert Cialdini, in 1984, he came on the scene with the book Influence. And of course, I have become a complete and total student of Cialdini.

Leah Bumphrey:
Well, and you are a force. You’re more than a student. I have learned so much from you about Cialdini and about the powers of persuasion and why, and the how, and I mean, that all stemmed from someone telling you you couldn’t.

Dennis Collins:
Yeah. So I guess my lesson is you only can’t if you believe you can’t.

Leah Bumphrey:
I like that.

Dennis Collins:
What did Henry Ford say? If you believe you can or if you believe you can’t, you’re right.

Leah Bumphrey:
Either way.

Dennis Collins:
So I made a decision all those years ago to believe I could.

Leah Bumphrey:
I think this episode is more about all the things that you did right as opposed to any big mistake. But it started with you being unsure.

Dennis Collins:
It’s kind of scary when you get a new job and you’re trying to impress people and you’re trying to put your best foot forward for these guys that stuck their neck out for you. And you get a report like that.

Leah Bumphrey:
Now this brings me to a question that one of our, it was actually a viewer sent in to our email address. We are going to be having a 60 minute discovery call with them, but the initial question really made me think, and it’s a Dennis question. What would you say are the, or is the, there might be only one, biggest misconceptions that people have when they start a business?

They’re going into business, they’re gung-ho, what’s a misconception that they should avoid?

Dennis Collins:
Wow, that’s a whole podcast.

Leah Bumphrey:
It’s a big one. It is, but we’re not doing a podcast.

Dennis Collins:
I know we’re not. So now you’re making me think about the biggest, you know?

Leah Bumphrey:
Yeah. What’s a big misconception? This particular person, when they started in business, to them, it was a license to print money. So you could say that would be it. But further to that.

Dennis Collins:
Here’s what I have found. Lack of focus. Being here, there, and everywhere. Trying to be all things to all people instead of learning the why, the purpose. What are you doing? Why are you doing this? What’s the why instead of the what?

Most people focus on what am I doing and how am I doing it? The why informs the purpose. The purpose is the thing that gets you up out of bed on the tough days. I have a purpose. I have a belief. My purpose, tying it back to my story, was that I am going to learn everything there is to know about these topics of leadership, communications, and salesmanship.

I’m going to learn everything there is to know. Now, I haven’t got there yet. That’s why I still do it every day. That was my purpose.

Leah Bumphrey:
I find that I am so inspired by you, Dennis. You are a lifelong learner, but not just a learner. You’re a teacher and you are someone who’s not afraid to be vulnerable. You’re not afraid to say, hey, coulda, shoulda, woulda. I still hang my hat on the fact that this is not you that made the big mistake.

And wow am I glad that you did have that gut reaction.

Dennis Collins:
I am too.

Leah Bumphrey:
Think of all the people we’re helping.

Dennis Collins:
I’m glad I didn’t fold up my tent and say, oh, I guess I just ought to leave. I’m cooked. The reason I point this out is because that was a pivotal moment for me. I know it sounds small, and yeah, it could have been Mr. Brown was wrong, or it could have been this, that, the other, but I took it personally. I took it personally and said, no, it’s me.

I need to work on me. I will commit. I said to Ray, my buddy and my friend and my boss, Ray, I’m never going to let you down. You never have to worry about me. I will make you proud. I hope he is proud.

Leah Bumphrey:
Oh, if he’s not, I want to talk to him.

Dennis Collins:
We’d have trouble reaching him, but, you have special powers. I know you do.

Leah Bumphrey:
Oh, yeah. I’m good at that.

Dennis Collins:
I don’t know where he is right now, but you could probably reach Ray, so I’ll give you some information on Ray on how you might find him.

Leah Bumphrey:
I guess you and I will be back next week, right?

Dennis Collins:
That’s what they tell us, and I’ll keep studying. I’ll get better. I mean, it’s like Pablo Picasso. Someone caught him practicing the cello at, no, not…Picasso’s the artist. Oh, Casals, I think his name is, Pablo Casals. I got my wrong Pablo. He’s a cellist, right? Pablo Casals.

Leah Bumphrey:
I have no idea. I just know Pablo Picasso is the artist.

Dennis Collins:
Yeah. This is the cellist, Pablo Casals. He was practicing his cello at the age of 93 or something like that, and this guy saw him practicing. You know, guy is 93 years old. He says, Pablo, why is it that at the age of 93, you’re still practicing? And he says, you know, I’m starting to get a little better.

Leah Bumphrey:
Let’s go. I love it.

Dennis Collins:
We’ll see you next week. That’s all for Connect and Convert. Next week, come back.

Leah Bumphrey:
You bet. See you, Dennis.

Dennis Collins:
Bye-bye.

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