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In this episode of Connect and Convert, Dennis Collins, Leah Bumphrey, and Paul Boomer pull a juicy confession from the archives: a founder who is “hostage” to their top revenue-producers. When your busiest people start skipping steps, ignoring training, and hiding sloppiness behind a wall of “momentum,” your business is in a state of drift. We dive deep into why founders avoid these “hard conversations” and the dangerous reality that your company’s standard is actually defined by the weakest person you allow to stay on staff.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • The “Busy” Trap: Why “busy” does not equal success and how high activity often hides a lack of efficiency.
  • The Hostage Situation: How to reclaim ownership of your business when you’re afraid your top earners will quit if criticized.
  • Defining Drift: How to tell the difference between true momentum and just “moving fast” away from your core purpose.
  • The Abdication of Kindness: Why withholding coaching from high performers isn’t being “nice” – it’s an abdication of leadership.

Dennis Collins: There are founders that think every single day things that they never say out loud. And here we are, Leah and Paul Boomer and Dennis to try to help that, right? They’re worried about the shortcuts they’re taking. They’re worried about their fears. They’re worried about decisions that quietly don’t get made.

So this is Connect and Convert. I’m Dennis here with Leah and Paul. We work with business owners and business founders. We have for decades. I kid that we have over 100 years of experience working with small business owners. 97 of those are mine.

Leah Bumphrey: The world was black and white.

Dennis Collins: Yes, indeed it was. Yeah.

Paul Boomer: It was.

Dennis Collins: So what we’re sharing is a series of confessions. Confessions. Real confessions. Real stories of real business owners and real founders. These come from the archives, right, guys? We’ve heard this stuff, and now we want to share it because if you’re feeling this or know someone who is and you can’t name it, you can’t solve it. You’ve got to name it to solve it.

So if you’re building something that matters, and I’m sure you are, that your business matters to you, you’re safe here. We get you. We understand what you’re going through, and we’re going to have a series of discussions, confessions, so that you can know that you’re not alone. Okay? So here we go. Hi, guys. Ready to go?

Leah Bumphrey: Hello again.

Paul Boomer: Let’s go.

Dennis Collins: I got a confession here, boy. I got a good one.

Leah Bumphrey: I’m always waiting for something juicier than you have, Dennis.

Dennis Collins: Well, I don’t know.

Leah Bumphrey: You live down in Florida. Come on. I’m up in Canada. It’s the cold, wild north. We don’t get to…

Dennis Collins: Well, if you want Florida Man confessions, that’s a different podcast.

Leah Bumphrey: Okay, we’ll talk. We’ll talk.

Dennis Collins: We could do sales confessions, okay? Sales confessions.

Leah Bumphrey: Paul’s kind of like me. He’s in the great Midwest, right?

Paul Boomer: That I am.

Dennis Collins: The great Midwest. I worry constantly about my busiest people. That may sound weird. Maybe the techs or the salespeople. They’re crushing the activity. They are working hard. They are not lazy. But the busier they get, the more shortcuts they take. Okay, how do I know that? Because their activity, the high level of activity, is hiding sloppiness. I can see they’re starting to accept more excuses for not buying, for not closing. They skip steps in our process. They tell themselves, “Experience is enough, boss. I don’t need any more training. I don’t need any more critique. I don’t need one-on-ones. I don’t need any of that stuff. Just let me do my thing.”

I’m beginning to understand for the first time in my business life that busy doesn’t mean success. Not necessarily. It could, but not necessarily. So here’s where my biggest fear, okay, let me say this quietly so no one can hear my fear, okay? These guys still bring in a ton of revenue, okay? They could be doing better, but they’re still bringing in a ton of revenue. So I’ll be honest.

My confession: I am afraid to coach them. I don’t want to coach them. I don’t want to criticize them because the minute I start interfering, they’re gonna say, “Screw you, I’m out of here. I’m done.” But they’re leaving money on the table, guys. And yet I’m afraid they’ll quit if I criticize them. And I can’t afford to have these guys walk out. What do you think?

Leah Bumphrey: I don’t think you own your business. I think they do.

Dennis Collins: Oh, well, that’s an interesting point.

Leah Bumphrey: Well, I’m being clear. As soon as you start letting somebody dictate to you how things are going and you are that afraid they’re going away, you are not running your business anymore. You don’t own it. They do. And you know what? If I can figure that out, they have long ago figured that out.

Dennis Collins: Alright, let’s talk about that. Paul, any input on that?

Paul Boomer: I love what she just said in regards to you don’t have a business because what they are doing is they’re giving them permission by not stepping in.

Dennis Collins: Tell us more.

Paul Boomer: It goes into the idea that they might be hitting their activity goals, they might be showing motion and such, but what steps start getting skipped? And as the steps start being skipped, more and more follow-up gets assumed instead of earned. So it looks like momentum, but it sounds like confidence, but it’s actually drift. It’s drift away from the purpose of the business.

Dennis Collins: Okay, say it again. It looks like momentum.

Paul Boomer: It looks like momentum. It looks like you’re seeing momentum.

Dennis Collins: You’re busy.

Paul Boomer: You’re busy, you’re doing things. And it sounds like confidence.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, it does. It feels confident, doesn’t it?

Paul Boomer: It feels great sometimes. But you’re drifting away from the core of the business, from the purpose of the business, from what it is that the business is really doing because they’re telling themselves, “I don’t want to micromanage,” or, “They’ve earned my trust.”

Dennis Collins: Exactly.

Leah Bumphrey: And this starts much earlier for business owners who have tuned in and you’ve only just started to scale your business. You don’t have those people that have the experience that are better reflecting this and running the show for you. This starts early on by you being afraid of coaching, being afraid of saying, “No, this is how we’re doing it,” being afraid of owning it.

Dennis Collins: Afraid.

Paul Boomer: Is it also afraid to disrupt productivity?

Dennis Collins: Well, okay, let me go back to the confession. Let me tell my intent in sharing that one. Yes, I am afraid of disrupting my revenue stream. Okay, I could go in there and say, “Boomer, you’re skipping three steps in our agreed-upon sales process. I want you to start immediately putting those three steps back into your process, okay? And it’s for your own good and for the good of the company, okay?” And that guy says…

Leah Bumphrey: Well, he’s gonna say one of two things: “Okie-dokie, this guy means business,” or, “I am out of here.”

Dennis Collins: Yeah. “I’m not gonna work for you.”

Paul Boomer: Or they’re gonna say, “Okie-dokie,” and not give a crap.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, just to get you out of their face, right? Yeah. Okay. So I’m still stuck. My confession is real. It’s happening. And I fear losing my revenue stream by taking corrective action. They’re not gonna put up with it. You’re right, they have me held hostage. I am hostage.

Leah Bumphrey: Having someone work for you, owning a business and having staff, is a lot like being married. If you’re not gonna talk, if you’re not gonna have a conversation, if you can’t have an honest conversation about what’s needed, what’s required, what’s wanted, because if they’re skipping these things, and I’m gonna assume that previously they were doing and following the sales process…

Dennis Collins: Oh yeah, initially they were.

Leah Bumphrey: So now they’ve stopped. So why is it? What’s going on?

Dennis Collins: Well, they’re getting lazy.

Leah Bumphrey: But you’re making an assumption. Maybe their spouse is sick. Maybe they are really toying with the idea of retiring. Maybe they need an assistant. Maybe, you know what, being at the office at 7:30 is just no longer cutting it. We don’t know until we talk to people. So that’s the first step. If they’re getting close to retiring, I would rather know that and be able to say, “Okay, you know what, I appreciate everything you’re doing. Which accounts do you want to continue looking after? What is it that you want to be doing?” and not doing this to them. But if they are looking at you as being their cash cow, “I’m gonna keep getting this check and I’m not really working at the business,” do you really want ’em?

Dennis Collins: So Leah, does that teach other people on staff that, “Oh, well, if he’s doing this and he’s getting this gracious, he’s able to skip these things because of a situation, then why am I not getting those?”

Leah Bumphrey: I’ve seen it happen. I have absolutely, that is absolutely gonna happen. And as a business owner, you have to be expecting that it’s gonna happen because you have to decide who’s worth hanging on to, why are they worth hanging on to, and it again, it all comes down to having those conversations with people. Especially if you’ve been in business for a long time, you might have a whole stable full of your best people approaching retirement, approaching change, approaching…

Dennis Collins: Well, I think it’s a valid point that at any point in a person’s life, you might have four or five people who sell for you. They’re all going through something in their life, right? Maybe some are close to retirement, maybe some are having problems at home. There’s always something. Am I now supposed to be a psychiatrist? Am I supposed to, as the business owner, now turn into a counselor? Because what you’re saying applies to everyone. We all have something going on in our lives that’s not related to the business.

Leah Bumphrey: If I own a business, I want to know. I do not want to be surprised by the fact that my best salesperson is leaving his wife and didn’t tell me and is struggling to keep…

Dennis Collins: That’s personal. That’s personal.

Leah Bumphrey: But it’s affecting what he’s doing for me. I need to know that. I need him to be able to tell me if he wants to. You can’t enforce that.

Dennis Collins: Well, again, I have met, maybe you guys have, a lot of people who keep their private life private, okay? And they don’t want to mix it with the business. And how do you deal with that? Leah, first of all, let me say that what you’re saying, I endorse that. The more that I know about my team, the better. But some teammates may have a boundary and say, “That’s it. That’s all I’m gonna share.”

Leah Bumphrey: But then it’s up to me to lead by example and come in during the week and say, “You know what, just so that you’re aware, struggling a little bit. My brother is in hospital and it’s kind of detracting from what I’m able to do.” I don’t need to write a book about it, but they need to know that I live a real human life as well. So that then when things are not quite that great, it’s not an excuse. I still need them done. I’m the business owner.

Similarly, if I know this other stuff is happening for you, at least I know. Because the fear is that they’re gonna quit if you criticize them. Well, you have to criticize them. You’re leaving money on the table. What the hell’s going on? “Well, that Leah, she doesn’t even realize that I’m going through all this stuff.” Well, she can’t. No one’s telling her.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, it’s kind of a vicious circle, isn’t it? Who talks first?

Paul Boomer: I wonder why do you have just a few? And this is implied, but I’ve seen this many, many times where there are four or five people who are the busiest, and not just salespeople, but four or five of the busiest people in the organization. And yet there’s 20 other people. Why are they the busiest four or five people? I want to back it up to that question. Why is that?

Leah Bumphrey: Let’s define our terms.

Dennis Collins: Maybe they’re hard workers.

Paul Boomer: Yes, ma’am.

Dennis Collins: Maybe they’re hard workers. They have a huge work ethic. Okay? They work from morning till night. They’ve been trained that way. That’s what they do.

Leah Bumphrey: There was a client of mine and they had a stellar sales manager. She was 10 out of 10. And you just had to ask her. She would tell you how good she was. But she really was. She really was. And she would tell you all about her 85-hour work weeks. Finally, finally the owner, the founder of the company, said, “Why can’t you get your work done in a 55-hour work week? Like, maybe you’re not that good at what you’re doing if it’s taking you 85.”

Dennis Collins: That hurt.

Leah Bumphrey: She was wearing it like a badge. And boy, did that take the wind out of the sails. And it validated the other people who were not running around like chickens with their heads chopped off and coming in on Sundays and doing all the things.

Dennis Collins: That’s interesting.

Leah Bumphrey: So that’s why we have to define what’s busy.

Dennis Collins: Yeah. We’ve all had those people. I’m thinking of a guy right now who I worked with. He was one of my department managers, department heads. This dude worked harder than any human being that I’ve ever known in my life. Okay. So his hard work was because he loved what he did and he was extremely good at it. He won a lot of awards doing his work. And so what do you say to that guy? “Don’t work so hard”? That doesn’t compute with me.

Leah Bumphrey: “Can I help you with the process?” Maybe you have to help them by hiring an assistant or giving them more time with an assistant.

Dennis Collins: No, I tried that. He said, “Screw that. I don’t need an assistant. I know what I’m doing. I’m gonna do it. And I work this hard because I love it. I love what I do.”

Leah Bumphrey: Okay. Is he doing everything you need him to do?

Dennis Collins: Yeah, he was.

Leah Bumphrey: Good.

Dennis Collins: Absolutely.

Leah Bumphrey: Let him go.

Dennis Collins: I did.

Leah Bumphrey: Paul has a.

Dennis Collins: Paul’s… I hear the wheels turning.

Leah Bumphrey: I hear, I see them all the way.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, all the way across the…

Paul Boomer: You see the smoke coming out of my head. There are so many different ways to look at this, though. Yeah, there are. Because as Leah said, what is the definition of busy? And there are some people who are just busy because that’s all they know, that’s what they’ve learned in their life. That’s not necessarily the right thing or the wrong thing, but there’s something there that’s deeper. What would happen if that person realized how many other powers that they actually have that they’re not yet utilizing because they’re so “busy,” because they’re so focused on this one area?

Leah Bumphrey: And I hate the word busy.

Dennis Collins: That’s interesting.

Leah Bumphrey: I hate when people tell me they’re too busy.

Dennis Collins: Wait, we’re back to an important point here. Define your terms. I like where you guys are going with this. There’s a guy, Stephen Covey. You’ve all heard of Stephen Covey. I used him a lot when I was running radio stations because I had a lot of busy people who were doing things that were merely urgent but not important. I don’t know if you remember the four boxes that Covey had.

Paul Boomer: Eisenhower matrix. Interesting.

Dennis Collins: Yeah. So what I would do, to your point of defining busy, I would ask them the question, “Alright, let’s look at what you’re doing. Is it busy work? Just urgent stuff that you failed to take care of in time so it became urgent, or is it important stuff?” Okay, that was the first distinction. Is it urgent? If it’s urgent and important, do it, right? If it’s merely urgent, why are you doing it? Does that make sense? Is that what you guys are talking about? Define busy. Are you just covering your butt because you failed to take action two weeks ago when it would have been just important and not urgent? Does that make sense?

Leah Bumphrey: And if you’re making your sales goals, if you’re hitting your quotas without following the process, then as a owner manager, it’s up to me to say, “Maybe there’s something messed up with my process.” Because is he missing — is he or she actually missing doing something that is critical?

Paul Boomer: Thank you for saying that, Leah, because that’s where I was thinking, too, is okay, you can have a salesperson who’s just kicking it and not following the process. Why are they not following? Actually, this reminds me of a conversation I had with my wife and my son the other day. He doesn’t like to wear his Apple Watch. We have an Apple Watch on him for many reasons, right? But he doesn’t wear it.

So my wife says, “The kid, he just needs to wear it.” I’m like, “No, no, no. Why is he not wearing it? What is the reason he is or is not doing the thing that we’re asking him to do?” Understanding that first allows you to understand, to look back at the sales process or whatever it is that you want to figure out and understand how it works. And you might have to adapt and realize, “Hey, that is an important thing that we’re not doing as a system.”

Dennis Collins: That’s true. So you’re saying reflect on the process, right?

Paul Boomer: Yeah, I’m saying, exactly. Reflect on the process because…

Leah Bumphrey: Ask them why not.

Paul Boomer: Yeah, that and yes.

Dennis Collins: Okay, now let me… I’m sorry.

Paul Boomer: No, go, go, go.

Dennis Collins: Here’s what I’m thinking. We’re talking about having all these conversations, right? We’re gonna have conversations about what’s bothering you. We’re gonna have a conversation about why you’re not following the process. We’re gonna have conversations about what’s going on in your life that’s causing you to maybe have to work too hard or something. Do you know, do you realize, guys, I’m sure you do, you’re smart people, most people have no freaking idea how to have those difficult conversations. Do you realize that? They don’t know how to have those conversations.

Now, the three people on this call, on this episode of Connect and Convert, we probably are a little more knowledgeable about how to have those conversations. And I know I’ll speak for me, if I think, “What the hell, I can do that. Why can’t you?” That’s not fair. That’s not fair to my managers. That’s not fair because they don’t know how to do it. And I have made it a part of my life to figure out how to do it and I teach them.

Leah Bumphrey: Okay, that drives me crazy. Sorry, I’m interrupting you. I hate, I hate.

Dennis Collins: Hate, hate, you hate.

Leah Bumphrey: I hate when someone says, “I’m in this job, this is what… But I can’t do that. I don’t know how to do that.” That is…

Dennis Collins: But it’s real.

Leah Bumphrey: But I hate it. And it should…

Paul Boomer: Hey, Dennis, she hates it.

Dennis Collins: You can hate it. Doesn’t make it go away.

Leah Bumphrey: No. Just because you don’t know how to do something, in this world of YouTube and Connect and Convert and people who are there to help, if you can’t figure out how to do something, find a resource, then why are you in this position?

Dennis Collins: Wow. That’s pretty… Are you a driver right now?

Leah Bumphrey: Right now I am. I can tell. Because, “Oh, I just can’t.” For heaven’s sakes, then do something else.

Dennis Collins: Okay. So can I share with you what happens?

Leah Bumphrey: Okay.

Dennis Collins: Okay. So let’s say that I say that to one of my managers. Okay? Put your big boy pants on and go have that conversation. Okay. “Well, boss, I’m uncomfortable. I don’t know.” I know. Just do it anyway. Okay. You know what happens, Leah? Nine times out of ten, they screw it up to the point of completely botching an already bad situation and possibly bringing legal action onto me and my company because they said something or did something that was illegal, okay? I mean, I’ve had this happen, guys, and they take a situation that was already bad and they make it worse because they don’t know how, they botch the conversation.

Leah Bumphrey: But that’s what happens when you don’t do those things I said. Ask for help, figure out how to do it.

Dennis Collins: They’re not as smart as you, Leah. They don’t know where to ask for help. Do you see? They don’t.

Leah Bumphrey: And why? And I don’t want them in that position.

Dennis Collins: Wow.

Leah Bumphrey: I’m king of the world. If I’m king of the world, then I don’t want them doing that.

Paul Boomer: So on that note, you can go to connectandconvertpodcast.com and in the show notes, you can download a little nice cool thing called the Founders Owners Sales Stress Playbook.

Dennis Collins: Yep, Sales Stress Playbook.

Paul Boomer: And tell us what is in there precisely there, Dennis.

Dennis Collins: Precisely. Yes. We understand that most founders and owners were not, did not come through sales. They came through some skill, some technical ability that they used to create their business. And sales confuses them, confounds them, and they don’t know what to do. Pick up this playbook. There are seven easy-to-understand, easy-to-read tips that you can read in about 30 minutes and you can implement one, two, or three easily in a day or two. And that will at least give you some traction, some idea of what the owner, founder should be looking at in regards to sales. Okay?

Paul Boomer: And it goes into also what we’re talking about right now and what Leah just mentioned. Maybe that person shouldn’t be in that position.

Dennis Collins: That’s true. It’s possible. But you know, I thought I was the most driver-esque person, but I’m beginning to wonder. Here’s how I handle it. I made it a point that I would not ask my management team to do anything that I wouldn’t do myself, okay? So I trained myself and I studied myself, like Leah said. I figured out how to have these tough conversations. Not everybody has figured that out. So I made sure that before I told them to go do a tough conversation, they better sure as hell know how to do it because not knowing how to do it puts me in a complete bind, okay? Does that make sense?

Leah Bumphrey: Yeah. You know, this is…

Dennis Collins: No, fire ’em. Get rid of them. Get ’em out.

Leah Bumphrey: But I mean, I’m, and you guys know I have a big heart and I’m people first, but sometimes this stuff bugs me. And Dennis, you might remember where I’m remembering this from. This would have been back in the ’80s and it’s always haunted me.

Dennis Collins: I wasn’t around, Leah.

Leah Bumphrey: Bless. When you are building a sales team, when you are building your ideal sales team, and we’ll use 10, easy math, okay, Canadian gal here. Okay, so what you want is on a sales team, you want to have three people that are following perfectly. They are textbook. They are making the calls, the follow-up, they’re writing the thank you notes. They are nailing their budget. Three of them are just doing that like clockwork.

Then you have two that are goal-driven. They’re gonna kill that. They kill their budget. They are gonna go hard and nothing’s gonna stop them. Then you’re gonna have two outliers that drive you crazy. They will or won’t make budget. You don’t know, but they are gonna do it in weird ways and you just leave them alone because one of them is gonna go and they’re gonna make enough that it doesn’t matter which one of them makes budget and which one of them doesn’t. It’s gonna help your overall team goals.

But then you have these other three. Then you have these other three. And honestly, they’re gonna always come pretty close to making budget. They’re gonna do everything. They’re gonna come pretty close and you’re okay with that because frankly, it saves the company bonuses. You don’t care. You’re okay.

Dennis Collins: I want my people to have bonuses. I want them to have bonuses.

Leah Bumphrey: No, no, but the company doesn’t want 100% bonuses. You want about 30% of your team.

Dennis Collins: I wanted 100% to get bonuses.

Leah Bumphrey: This, you know what? 30% of them, eh, if they don’t, the company actually makes more money.

Dennis Collins: Okay. Well, you just. I don’t like that part of it, but I do like your description. You just described probably every sales team in the world. There’s gonna be a stratification, right? And you learn that quickly as a sales manager that not everybody is created equal. But we’re not talking about that. We’re talking about people who are pushing back, who we need to have a tough conversation with, and we are not doing that conversation because we’re afraid of repercussions, i.e., they’re gonna cost us in sales.

Leah Bumphrey: Okay, so we’re talking about the not wanting to make the discussion because I think that having that on your team is a reality based on that 10.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, I agree. I totally agree with that.

Leah Bumphrey: So not wanting to have the discussion, that again is, figure it out, man. Because if they leave, you’re just gonna have to replace them.

Dennis Collins: I love this, Leah. We’re seeing a side of you that we haven’t seen before.

Paul Boomer: I love it. And I’m sorry, I’m gonna start wrapping it up just a little bit because we need to go from. The question isn’t about whether to intervene with these people. It’s how early are you willing to protect the standard of the organization?

Dennis Collins: Absolutely. And that’s a great question. But once again, who has the responsibility of helping that manager, that person, whether it’s you or someone who works for you, who has the responsibility of making sure they can have that discussion properly? Is it them or you, or is it a joint venture?

Paul Boomer: It starts at the top.

Leah Bumphrey: Always starts from the top.

Paul Boomer: Always starts at the top.

Dennis Collins: And I always saw it that way, which is probably why I sometimes over-managed. But you know what? I can’t send a person into a lion’s den if they don’t know how to fight lions, okay? I just can’t do that.

Leah Bumphrey: And the first conversation is about gathering information.

Dennis Collins: Of course it is. So that’s not the hard part of the conversation. The hard part of the conversation is said, I’ve gathered my information. It’s now time for me to tell you what you need to do to get in step. Okay, that’s a hard conversation. That’s hard.

Leah Bumphrey: Okay, but any salesman worth keeping knows right away as you gather information. You start asking me questions. You start asking me hard questions about shit I’m not doing. I know where this is going.

Dennis Collins: Of course you do.

Leah Bumphrey: I know. So let’s not pretend that the salesperson doesn’t know they’re not doing it and that the supervisor doesn’t and that the… Let’s do it because.

Dennis Collins: Well, they’re waiting to see, Leah, what, okay, how serious are you, Leah? Paul? Dennis? How serious are you? What are the consequences for non-performance? That’s the first thing that goes into their head. And let me track back to one last item that I want to talk about and that is we talked about, I think Paul brought it up, you have a different conversation with a person depending on where they are in the hierarchy. Let me say this. There is no standard in business, in any small business, other than the standard of the weakest person you allow to be on your staff. Okay.

Why? Because everybody knows who the weak people are. And their mental process says, you know what, they’re gonna go before I do. So I don’t have, first of all, I don’t have to work too hard because they’re doing nothing and they’re still here. So I’ll just work here and just keep myself level. And I know that I have job security.

They set the standard, the lowest performers. So to not have a conversation with them is malpractice. You have to, you have to. But what if you, again, circling back, what if you don’t know? And that’s where I maybe differ with you, Leah. I would make sure they know how to do it before I’d tell ’em to go in there and do it.

Leah Bumphrey: I’d go with them, but I just, why did you put them in that position if they can’t actually really sincerely want to help their team? Because that’s what this is.

Dennis Collins: That’s…

Paul Boomer: I’m gonna wrap this up.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, but that’s a complicated question you just asked.

Paul Boomer: It is. It’s very…

Dennis Collins: That’s a very complicated question. And I guess the answer to it is you saw enough good stuff, right? You saw enough good stuff. But is any hire, I don’t know, I’ve probably hired a thousand people in my life. Was every one of them 100%? I wish I could say yeah. Hell no, they weren’t.

Paul Boomer: So in one sentence, one sentence, I want each of you to try and wrap up this conversation from your point of view.

Dennis Collins: Oh boy, that’s tough. You go, Leah.

Leah Bumphrey: If you know you gotta have the conversation, have the conversation. Start it. Start somewhere. You’re risking more by not having it. That’s three sentences.

Paul Boomer: Yeah. Yeah, it’s alright. Now I should coach you because you did more than three. Dennis.

Dennis Collins: Before you have the conversation, make sure, as Leah always says, define your terms. Make sure you understand what it is you want to come from that conversation. What results do you want to have? And make sure you know how to structure a difficult conversation.

Leah Bumphrey: Paul, now you.

Paul Boomer: Alright, so withholding coaching from the high performers isn’t kindness. It’s abdication.

Leah Bumphrey: You nailed it. We’re done. Mic drop.

Dennis Collins: Hey guys, we have a theory here at Connect and Convert. Most founders, most business owners, they don’t need more advice. They just need a place for honesty. And that’s what we do. This is your place for honesty. Connect and Convert. We’ll see you on the next episode.

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