Dennis Collins:
Welcome to another episode of Connect and Convert, the sales accelerator podcast where small business owners learn insider tips and tactics to grow sales faster than ever, every week. This week, I’m joined by my partner in this crime, hey, Leah Bumphrey.

Leah Bumphrey:
Dennis, how you doing? Good to see you.

Dennis Collins:
Good to see you again.

Leah Bumphrey:
I am excited to be back. We’re spending a little more time together now that we’re starting to see our listeners getting a hold of us about our offer. We didn’t start off with our podcast having this offer.

We were just taking questions, but now we are making ourselves available for a 60-second no-charge discovery call to see what might make sense for some of our listeners and viewers in terms of where is there more information that they would like? Is it recruiting?

Is it sales training? Absolutely. Whatever. Is it something very specific to their industry? I’m loving that we’re getting together a little bit more and being able to talk about what’s possible and then see, is there an opportunity to work even further with our listeners.

Dennis Collins:
Can’t wait to get some emails. We are easy to reach. I’m DennisCollins@WizardOfAds.com.

Leah Bumphrey:
I’m LeahBumphrey@WizardOfAds.com. Next time we’re going to have to switch around our email address and see if anyone notices.

Dennis Collins:
Try to mix it up, right? Again, one of us will do. If you’d like to email both of us, that would be nice, but Leah and I are having a contest. Vote for me!

Leah Bumphrey:
Come on, I’m the Canadian. It’s quicker if you send it to me.

Dennis Collins:
That’s true. No doubt.

Today, we’re going to talk about first principles for sales conversations. First principles. What the heck is a first principle? First of all, let me ask our viewers and listeners, how many of you are signed up or subscribed to the Monday Morning Memo written by the Wizard of Ads himself, the one and only Roy H. Williams? Let me see your hands. Oh, I see a lot of hands going up out there. I got you. You’re very wise.

Leah Bumphrey:
And in good company.

Dennis Collins:
Absolutely. Last one. Again, we’re recording this in early September. The last memo came out on the 2nd of September, Monday. It really struck me. Most of them do. Most of them have something you can take away instantly. But this one really, really got to me. And it’s about first principles. Roy’s point is that there are two immutable, unchangeable principles that drive marketing. But you know what I’ve also found, Leah? A lot of the stuff he writes about marketing also has to do with running a business, sales, and with leadership.

Leah Bumphrey:
It’s all connected. All connected.

Dennis Collins:
It’s all connected. So when he writes, he writes usually marketing specific, but guess what? It’s more generic. So today we’re going to blow up his concept, if you will, expand upon it, because it clearly has application for our audience. What are first principles? What Roy will tell us that the first one is don’t try to convince the customer to think and feel like you do.

Now Leah, what do you think he means by that?

Leah Bumphrey:
We all like to believe that we think the same and I know stuff. Look at, for example, yourself, very science-based me. I prefer the story and the emotion behind it. Which one of us is right? All joking aside, neither one of us is right.

Dennis Collins:
But it- You are, Leah. You’re always right.

Leah Bumphrey:
Oh, you answered that correctly.

Dennis Collins:
Many years of experience.

Leah Bumphrey:
But we want to have customer-centric ways of trying to attract business, of letting them know why it’s important to them, because really what’s it about? What’s in it for me? And that’s how we look at all things in this world.

Dennis Collins:
I do a lot of research on a lot of things. And one of my favorite topics is this very topic.  We are not typical. We have our own set of beliefs, our own narrative, our own operating system, social styles, etc. But we’re not typical. There are four social styles.

If you’re a Myers-Briggs fan, there are 16 different temperaments. So typical is not a word that should cross our lips, because each one of us is different in our own way. And if we think our customers act and think just like we do, big mistake.

We have to spend the time and money to get inside their heads, customer-centric. In B2B sales, in sales conversations that we talk a lot about here, why do you think we talk about questions? When you’re finished asking questions, ask another question. Do not impose your own perspective. You will make a mistake 90% of the time. So the first principle of a sales conversation, just as is in marketing, don’t try to convince the customer to think and feel like you do. It’s not going to work. You will not be successful.

Second principle, I love this one. The customer is not looking for a product or service. They are looking for transformation. What do you think that means, Leah?

Leah Bumphrey:
Nobody wakes up in the morning and decides, I want to spend money on a thing. They want to spend money on how something’s going to make them feel. They want to join a gym, not because they’re interested in spending an hour and a half every day going and sweating with a bunch of people that they don’t know.

They want to go to the gym because they want to feel fantastic when they’re going for an event or when they’re just waking up in the morning and playing with their kids. We are always looking for that portal to what’s next. What is it that you can do to, even the people that are listening to us, we’re fantastic to spend time with, but really, they are looking for what is next for their business. What might this mean for what I’m offering my clients? Because ultimately, we’re all connected in that chain.

Dennis Collins:
The word that hits me hardest is transformation. That’s a pretty serious, heavy word, isn’t it? Transformation. When they do business with us, as Wizard of Ads partners, they’re not looking for another friend or for someone to communicate back and forth with an email.

They are looking to transform a part of their business, to change it in some way. It’s our job to find out what kind of transformation they’re looking for. That’s what the incovery period is all about. That’s why we ask so many questions. What is your transformation?

It’s a little harder in what we do. It’s a little easier. I think it’s a little harder when you’re dealing with actual hard goods and products. How does this product transform you? That takes some thinking. That’s why marketing is not for the weak-hearted. It’s a tough business. What is your transformation?

Leah Bumphrey:
But Dennis, that’s why I love that you brought up the word uncovery, because if we’re working with a client who’s looking at doing something new in their marketing end, you need an uncovery. If we’re working with a client who’s looking for something new when it comes to training, you need an uncovery.

If there’s a cookie cutter, if it’s an off-the-rock, oh, you’re this type of business, this is what you need, that has nothing to do with the person. That’s about you and me. That’s why everything from the podcast to our questions to our 60-minute discovery call to what may happen next is so personalized.

Dennis Collins:
Indeed. Talk about personalizing. I see on our screen right now four very attractive people. I see our partner, Michelle Miller. I see Leah. I see Vi Wickham. And I see some old man in the woods there that’s kind of popping out.

Leah Bumphrey:
I feel like the gal – remember the teacher on Rumple Room? I see Dennis, I see… you know what? We want our listeners, please subscribe to the Monday Morning Memo. The little secret is when you subscribe to it, there’s some great information, but Roy always takes you on a bit of a trip.

It’s about two to five minutes every week of going down the rabbit hole. You click on the picture at the top of it, and it takes you down. This one, you get the added surprise of getting to see our picture.

Dennis Collins:
Yeah, boy, that was a surprise, wasn’t it? So there we go. So let’s talk. I always like to have action steps, Leah. I mean, we can talk theory all we want, but I love to leave our audience, what can you do today? So first thing I would suggest is make sure that whatever business you’re in, before you start, quote, selling anything, understand their needs, confirm.

Do I understand your situation? Do I get you? Because they’re asking that question. Mentally, they’re saying, does this guy get me? And if you answer that, you put yourself in a very strong position to consummate the deal. Here’s one of my favorites to listen, listen, listen, listen more than you talk.

Leah Bumphrey:
I can’t hear you. What was that?

Dennis Collins:
I’ll buy you a hearing aid, OK? We are wired to talk. We get a dopamine release when we self-disclose. It feels good. We do not get a dopamine release when we listen. Therefore, if we have a choice between talking and listening, we choose talking.

But that’s not going to help build a customer-centric relationship. That will build a traditional features and benefits. Let me tell you what’s good for you. And that just doesn’t work. Now, here’s a good question. We all talk about value. Where does value live, Leah What’s the home of value? Where does it reside?

Leah Bumphrey:
People mistaken value for dollars. That’s not where it is. Value is in the individual heart. I will value this coffee mug because it is from a mining company that one of my sons worked with. I value it. For someone else, it’s just a coffee cup. The value is assigned by the person. It has nothing to do with the monetary.

Dennis Collins:
Boy, oh boy, you said. And unfortunately, a lesson not well learned. We all seem to think that we create value. No, we can help the customer create value. We can help if we do our sales conversation properly.

But the value resides, as Leah said, in their mind. Okay, so how about just providing solutions? I don’t like someone to just give me, here’s this product. What does it do for me? What does it solve? And of course, the key word, respect. Respecting the customer, respecting their time, respecting their decisions, even if they choose not to use you. Exiting with respect.

Leah Bumphrey:
That’s right. And you know what? It’s a trilogy, really. It’s the combination of trust, honesty, and transparency. They build with each other. And it doesn’t mean you’re going to end up working with that person now. It doesn’t mean that you’re never going to.

But you build a trust so that when you think of that person, you reflect, and yeah, that’s someone I would talk to. I would ask that. It’s very open. This is when they’re available. This is when they’re not. It’s based on real life.

Dennis Collins:
Authenticity, right? So what can I suggest to our audience? I always like to make a challenge, and today I will make this challenge. How often do you actually review how you have structured your marketing messages and your sales conversations? Are you stuck in the old features and benefits recitation?

Surprisingly, there are many that still are. They say, no, that’s not me. That’s the other guy. But when we do an analysis and we help them see their, quote, blind spots, they say, what? That’s what we’re doing? Yeah, that’s what we’re doing. How many questions are your marketing people and salespeople asking?

How many needs do they uncover? How much time are they talking versus how much time is the customer talking? These are all metrics that we can help you with. Guess what? We know we have developed very strong programs that can tell us what a successful sales conversation looks like and sounds like.

So I’m going to make another offer on top of the offer Leah made at the top. Send us a recorded sales conversation. If you have a recorded sales conversation, we will keep it private. We will not disclose it, but we will analyze it for you free. Producer Paul has come up with all kinds of gidgets and gadgets to make this possible.

So email us either DennisCollins@WizardOfAds.com or LeahBumphrey@WizardOfAds.com.

Leah Bumphrey:
I love that you just made that offer. We’re going to talk about you not betting it with me and Paul beforehand, later. I’m in trouble again. It’s okay. I do love that you made the offer, but it really comes full circle because our question from a listener this week was, what are you two trying to sell?

Sorry, Paul. They said two. It made me laugh because this works so well with this particular topic because it depends what you need. There’s lots of stuff that we could sell someone, but you and I don’t have a bunch of stuff that we’re trying to sell. We’re trying to help. We’re trying to see how we can connect, how we can help our listeners do that.

Dennis Collins:
For me, I’m not here to sell anything. Again, you said the word. I’m here to help. And guess what? I will be the first one to retreat as fast as possible if I don’t believe I can help.

Leah Bumphrey:
And a proper salesperson, trainer, manager, whatever it is, it should be an investment. Doesn’t matter how nice we are, how good looking we are when we’re on screen with those pictures, how much Paul interrupts us. It’s an investment. Nobody should give anybody money just because they’re a nice person unless it’s your grandma. And for your birthday, I’m okay with that.

Are you listening, grandma?

Dennis Collins:
You said birthday. By the way, this is my birthday month. When you get to my age, you celebrate the birthday for the whole month.

Leah Bumphrey:
Absolutely.

Dennis Collins:
The whole month. Happy birthday. So September is my birthday month, and I will celebrate. Any birthday gifts would be much appreciated. Not necessary, but it would be really nice.

Leah Bumphrey:
For your first gift, Paul and I will not sing to you. How’s that?

Dennis Collins:
That is a gift. That is a gift. For sure.

Leah Bumphrey:
Well, WizardOfAds.org, continue to sponsor us. I’m excited about that. I am hoping that all of our listeners will subscribe to the Monday Morning Memo. Just look up Monday Morning Memo, Roy H. Williams. It is worth the five minutes every week, if only to make you think about other things and expand where you’re going.

Dennis Collins:
You bet. And again, we thank you for tuning in. Tell your friends, if you like what you’re hearing, tell your friends to tune in to Connect and Convert. We have a new episode every week, okay? That’ll end it for this episode of Connect and Convert. It’s Dennis and Leah saying bye for now.

Leah Bumphrey:
See you next time.

Dennis Collins:
Happy birthday. And thanks to producer Paul.

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