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Dennis Collins: Hey, welcome back. Good to see you again on Connect and Convert, the sales accelerator podcast where small business owners join us every month to listen to secrets, insider secrets, insider tips about how to grow your business faster than ever. I’m Dennis Collins. And today I am joined by my business partner and my podcast partner, Leah Bumphrey. Hi, Leah.

Leah Bumphrey: Hey, Dennis. How are you doing? Good to see you.

Dennis Collins: I’m feeling good. I hope you are because I’ll tell you why. We like to bring you the greatest guest in the world on this podcast. And we’ve had some pretty serious guests. But today, ladies and gentlemen, we have a special guest right here on our podcast. If you’ve been listening to the podcast, and we hope you have, you may feel that you already know this guest. In fact, if producer Paul will hit the magic button, let me expose this guest right now. Our special guest today is none other than my business partner and my podcast partner, Leah Bumphrey.

Leah Bumphrey: Oh, you make me smile. You make me smile, Dennis. I get to be interviewed by the Dennis Collins of the West.

Dennis Collins: Well, that and two cents won’t even buy you a cup of coffee. But let me tell our audience why. Since you last saw Ms. Leah Bumphrey, something amazing, something wonderful has happened in her life. And hopefully in your life, when you find out that she has written a book. Yes, her very own first book, Midnight Musings of a Relational Marketing Mom. Okay, Midnight Musings. I love that title. Finding Fairytale Growth for Your Real Life Business. I love that title and that subtitle. And what I really love is this picture of Leah. Can you see that?

Leah Bumphrey: It looks a little like me. Got to be honest.

Dennis Collins: I think it looks a lot like you. Well, here’s my own copy. This is widely available, and I highly recommend it. I’d give you this one, except I’ve already started marking this one up. I put notes in it. I put red lines and all this. This is my own personal copy. So you can’t have this one. But I understand from Ms. Leah there are plenty available at wherever you shop for your books. Am I right?

Leah Bumphrey: That is correct. Probably the easiest is to go on Amazon. That way they bring it right to you. And depending on whether you’re getting rain or snow, sometimes it’s nice to have a cozy book. But, yeah, I was very excited, and I love that this is available because, as Dennis, there’s nothing that makes me happier than making a difference for business owners. And I’ve been working in that business for over 30 years. It’s been 35 years between specifically print and radio and storytelling with a whole mix of things in there. And sometimes you’ve just got to sit down, you’ve got a bunch of stuff in your head, and away you go.

Dennis Collins: Well, again, that’s kind of where I wanted to go today because I can assure you, I told Leah when I got my first copy, I said, this is a page-turner, okay? I am used to scanning books. I scan books for the chapter that I like, and I read it, then maybe I’ll jump to another chapter, and eventually I’ll get to all the chapters. But I scan. I couldn’t scan this book. I had to start at the beginning and go all the way through the book. It kept my interest. It kept the pages turning. We already knew a couple things about you. Three things.

You’re Canadian and from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, I love to say. That’s correct. You’re also a very successful radio salesperson and have been for many years. You have many satisfied and successful clients. And you’re also a gifted writer. Those are things we already knew about you. But maybe, just maybe, you would feel comfortable in telling us a little bit more about your backstory. I also am very interested, when I ever talk to an author, I want to know where did they get the inspiration. I mean, that to me is always an interesting story.

So let’s start with that. Tell us a little bit about you that we don’t know, maybe some secrets, some deep, dark secrets. Remember, we always tell our audience we’re going to give you insider tips. Well, today’s the day to give us some insider information on Leah.

Leah Bumphrey: Well, Dennis, I think when you and I are talking, one of the reasons that it’s always interesting to us, and based on the feedback we get from our listeners and our viewers, interesting to them too, is we have a slightly different but cohesive way of looking at things. And then we throw Paul in there, and it just makes sense. You look at the science behind stuff. Why, why, why, why? I like the story of things. I like to pull people in and make them think, think, think. And then we have Paul that keeps us grounded when we are not seeing how those things come together.

And with this book and the beginnings of it, that’s really, kind of encapsulates what happened when I had some ideas and I was pondering things. Initially, this book started to be written back, my youngest is 21, and he was two years old. And it really was truly midnight musings because I’m up, and I love my clients, and I love what I do in radio. I love all the things at that point that I was just being introduced to when it comes to wizardacademy.org, who sponsors our podcast. And I just sat down over a series of nights when I was not sleeping.

Of course, it was the nights the kids were sleeping, but I wasn’t. And hit my keyboard, and, and I went, you know what? This is not just interesting to me. This is the story of small businesses and how it works and what people consider important in what they do and why they do it. And so I had an outline, and I’ve done writing in the past, and I reached out to someone I knew in publishing, and they said to me, this is terrible.

Dennis Collins: They used the T word, huh, terrible?

Leah Bumphrey: They used the T, and they said, this is not anything anyone would ever be interested in. And if anybody out there that’s a new parent or, you’re working and you’re not sleeping as much, and someone tells you that a project you’re working on is terrible, you kind of go, I’m putting it over here. I can’t look at this anymore. I got to jump back into the stuff that I know I’m being told is not terrible, that I’m doing well. But this just kept percolating.

Dennis Collins: Well, you told a story, I believe you also tell it in the book, if I’m not mistaken, about how this manuscript, this lost manuscript, all of a sudden reappeared in your life. And I don’t believe in coincidences, Leah. I think there’s a reason for that. And tell us what happened.

Leah Bumphrey: Well, I have been a wizard partner now for three years, which is what, I think we’d have to 10 times it for how long you’ve been involved, Dennis. And even though I’ve been involved, I haven’t been a partner. And one.

Dennis Collins: Is that an old joke? Is that an old man joke?

Leah Bumphrey: That is not an old joke, absolutely not. But one thing Roy is always passionate about is the stories of the partners, and what have you done for me lately? What are you doing to let people know why this is important? Because think about it. You and I, Insider Secrets for Small Business, why is that important to us? It’s important to us because we’ve spent most of our careers helping and seeing what happens when we’re able to lift someone up, which lifts a whole bunch of other people up, not just their business, but their family, their community, their industry in an area.

And we’ve also seen what happens when people come just this close and we can’t help them. And sometimes it’s financial, sometimes it’s need, sometimes… And you think of those times, and it’s like, man, if I could have just inspired you, if I could have just explained that story correctly to you. So when I became more involved in what was going on at the Academy and continued coming to classes, that involves looking after my local clients, looking after my, I call, Wizard clients. They’re all Wizard clients, but I’ll use that to differentiate. And in the book, I explain I have a gal that I give a shout to every once in a while because this will shock Paul. It’s not going to shock you, Dennis, but it’s going to shock Paul. I am not always as organized as I seem.

Dennis Collins: Really? Is this a true confession?

Leah Bumphrey: I know. That is true. This is true. I am not always… That woman that you guys see at meetings that just has it all together? Who would not be surprised by that is my husband and my three kids. But I have a zest and an energy and a desire. And so when I get to a point that, okay, this is not working well, I have professionals, professional organizers, professional accountants, people that will help me go, okay, this is where you went wrong. I have Paul to go, Paul, where is the Zoom link? I don’t know where I’m supposed to put it. And I have resolved that I’m okay.

Because we all need someone. Just like somebody needs an advertising person that’s going to be able to help them find their story and grow their business. That’s what I do. So this manuscript was literally in a pile of stuff. And a gal that I have that comes in and she is ultra good at like this, like do this, do this, make it easy to find. And she’s made a huge difference in my life over the past 10 years. And she saw this and like, what is this? And she started reading, can I read this?

Yeah, she said, this is really interesting. I would read this. I don’t even like business books and I would read this. So I get into that a little bit. And it just sparked again because I have a great love for the concept behind this. And the concept isn’t that you have to be a mom to be successful in business. And the concept isn’t that you have to do things that all businesses are family oriented. But the idea behind the book is me as an advertising professional sitting back and thinking of my clients and thinking of the things that influence them. That has merit for businesses who are musing and wondering what direction should they be going in?

Dennis Collins: And you shared some time ago some parts of that manuscript with producer Paul and myself. And I think we both immediately said something to you. I believe it was something like, are you crazy? Why isn’t this in print? I think we said something like that, didn’t we?

Leah Bumphrey: That’s exactly right. And it really was the exact opposite of what I was initially told by someone supposedly in the business. And you got to stop and think about that sometime, because something Paul said resonated with me and I’ve quoted this to a lot of people. It was when you read it, he realized that there was a core bunch of people that were going to get it. And there were a core bunch of people that aren’t going to get it, which kind of bugged him. But that’s okay. Isn’t that, Dennis, what you and I talk to businesses about all the time?

Dennis Collins: Yeah, I mean, if you’re getting 100% approval, you’re doing something wrong.

Leah Bumphrey: If I’m selling bowling balls and you come in because you’re looking for golf balls and you’re irritated with me, that’s okay. I never told you I was selling golf balls. So if someone is hiring me, and that’s the thing, people could be irritated, but they heard the ad wrong. They misunderstood when someone was telling them about it. So with this, if you are surprised that there’s some stories about the cutest, most adorable kids out there. I’m talking, of course, about my three now adult children who are shaking their heads right now because they know I’m saying something about how adorable they are.

But really, in life, and working moms, working dads, if you are trying to have a life where it is completely separated, you’re doing your job and then you come home, you’re done, and then you’re with your family. There is an integration that happens with something that you care about. And a business is something that you care about. So if you’re not willing to integrate that, man, you are missing on an opportunity for growing and sharing with your kids, for being connected with your spouse, and for really making a difference with the businesses that you’re working with.

Dennis Collins: So, Leah, two thoughts occur to me. Is this a kind of an inspiration to those working moms, not just in the relational marketing business, but in all business? Is this book universally geared to, hey, you can do it. You can do it. I did it, and so can you.

Leah Bumphrey: At the very least, when someone tells you, meh, take a look and go, wait a minute, why aren’t they getting what I’m trying to achieve? I’ve had ideas that are not fantastic or that have been more… Even this book has changed from my original idea. Not dramatically, but the title is different. The concept of how to help businesses with this information is different. And that all came from talking to people that I really admire and trust in business and them going, okay, but what is it that you’re trying to share here? What is it that you’re trying to share here?

So you’ve got to be open to information, but don’t give up on something important. Because now I’m being asked by people who’ve read the book, and not just moms, but people in business who care about how they are presenting their advertising, who care how they’re treating their staff. They’re asking me, okay, well, what’s next? Where are you going with this? Because relational marketing, branding is what this book is about. And it explains branding myself, how you and Paul and I connect and convert, and how businesses all over the world do that.

But there’s also transactional advertising out there, and we bow to that because people use a little bit of their advertising budget for sales activation. So even when you’re talking this, there’s also this. Well, as a marketing mom, what are the other things in over 30 years of very, very specific Wizard style advertising that I’ve learned? Well, there’s a lot of lessons that you get talking to other business owners and other people that are out and about there. And as I’m making notes and I’m jotting and people are asking me questions, I’m realizing that I’m not just a relational marketing mom, I’m also a life is full marketing mom. I’m also a what’s next marketing mom or a don’t believe you can’t do it marketing mom.

Dennis Collins: I like that. Don’t believe you can’t do it. It’s an empowering message. And I have a couple of questions about the way in which you wrote it. But let me let me ask you kind of an overall question. If this book is an answer, let’s say that it’s an answer. What was the question that drove you to write the book?

Leah Bumphrey: Is it possible to be running a business that you can be proud of, that you can be proud of telling your kids that you’re running, that you can be using as an anchor for your community and still be proud of the income that you’re making? Because let’s face it, you and I both know a lot of people that never had the advantage of maybe going to university to pursue law or engineering or becoming a doctor or professional in some way. But they still are smart and driven. And what can they do? Well, sales is an opportunity to make an above average income. If you are in business, you are in sales. Make no mistake. I don’t care what business you are in.

Dennis Collins: Everyone’s in sales in a business.

Leah Bumphrey: Right. And if you’re in sales, you are running your own business. Right. Even if, Dennis, how many people you hired down at your radio stations in Miami, were they not all running their own business?

Dennis Collins: Certainly the salespeople were, yeah, because they were actually compensated by straight commission.

Leah Bumphrey: That’s right. So one way or another, you’re doing this. And there’s this wonderful thing called the 24 hour clock. I’ve heard of it. Yeah. And guess what? Your 12 year old who’s playing hockey or playing football or going to dance is probably not doing that at 11 at night. But they’re home doing it about three in the afternoon. And if you are in a sales position, if you are a mom or a dad in sales or in your own business, you can figure out your 24 hour clock to be able to go and fully participate and be a mom, be a dad, be the favorite uncle, be the favorite auntie. All that means, though, is that stuff that you were going to do between three and five. Guess where it gets shifted? It might get shifted to midnight.

Dennis Collins: Interesting. That’s a fascinating answer. What did you… Let me ask you this? What was the most difficult to write? And also, I want to talk about your style. You chose to write this book in a different style. It’s not what you would expect from a normal quote marketing book. What is it that caused you to choose that style? And what was the most difficult thing to write and keep in your final version?

Leah Bumphrey: The most difficult thing to write, I thought, were the questions. Because you know when you and I are talking, Dennis, what you ask me informs the next question that you’re going to… Or my answer to it informs the next question. It’s a conversation, and this book is very much a conversation. So I was tapping into thousands of people that I’ve talked to with the questions, thinking, okay, where will this go?

Because this is a workbook of sorts where people can go through and analyze, and I encourage you, don’t just scan it, like get into it, because it’s not a tone leak. If this book takes you a couple months to read, it’s because you’re not picking it up. But that, I found, really hard because I want those questions to have impact, and I want people to be thinking about it. So that, I would say, was the most difficult.

And the style of it, you know that I love writing commercials for clients in any media, but I do a lot of radio. I like doing it in a way that people go, what? What is that? Because we can get bored. We get so bored with stuff. We get so bored with what’s going on, with how things are presented, and how many books on your bookshelves back there are all business ones. And it’s very, a business book, and it’s this, to this, to this, it’s boring.

Dennis Collins: It’s a lot.

Leah Bumphrey: I don’t do boring in ads, and I don’t want to do boring in any kind of writing I do. And the price of not being boring is somebody’s going to be reading this and go, this is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. Why is she talking about fairy tales? But for me, as a mom, as a grandma, as a dad, how many books did you read? Not all fairy tales, not all the classics, but there’s stories, and a story within a story is about every one of us.

Dennis Collins: Indeed, and I appreciate that. Because that, in my knowledge of working with you, that’s your approach. It’s not going to be boring. It’s not going to be same old, same old. In fact, I can remember years ago, we were recording some videos for a meeting, and my script is usually pretty linear, and you took that, and you shined it up, you freshened it up, and you made it interesting. Remember that? You took a whole different approach than I would have ever taken. And that’s what this book does, okay?

Leah Bumphrey: And people noticed it, in a way, because if you can make people laugh, or you can make people cry, if you evoke some sort of emotion, they’re going to remember you. They might not like you, because we all meet people every day that don’t like you, or don’t like the way you write, but it’s possible.

Dennis Collins: So will this book make you laugh or cry?

Leah Bumphrey: It’ll make you do both. There are some funny stories in there, and I say them as a mom, but we all have funny stories of our kids, and when they’re beautiful, and they’re this small, and we’re holding them, we think, oh, I’m going to write down every precious little moment, and we don’t. You end up with those couple of stories that you go, oh, yeah, this one encapsulates Jonah, this one is totally Peter, this one is Fletcher.

So there’s some of that kind of fun, and then there’s also that kind of, okay, wait a minute, I’ve experienced that, I have felt that, I have wondered, is it possible to run a business where I can feel good about it, and I can feel good about what I’m presenting, and that I’m not just trying to take everybody’s gold coins away.

Dennis Collins: So do your three sons know that they are in this book? Not by name, but by reference.

Leah Bumphrey: Yeah, they absolutely do. And you know what? When I first started working for the radio station here in Saskatoon, Rawlco was very family-oriented, I was just a few blocks away. So even when they were, and I worked here before I was a mom, but when I was on maternity leaves, when it would be a Saturday, we would walk there. They knew what was going on. They would sit in the chair with the microphone. They knew that I worked for a guy named Mr. Cliff, which is how we referred to him, because he wasn’t an Uncle Cliff, that’d be kind of creepy, and he wasn’t Mr. Lesko, but he was Mr. Cliff, because that’s who mom worked for.

And isn’t that fantastic? And they will still call him that, and they still have, will see him, and now they’re just as likely to see him in a restaurant as anywhere, but there’s still a connection. So that’s an important part of everything that they do too, is, I don’t know, that’s part of family. That’s part of how I run my business.

Dennis Collins: So you mentioned that this was not a traditional written book for a reason. You have a reason. I particularly like the idea that it’s not a checklist. So many business books are checklists, right? A, B, C, D, E, F. See, if I wrote a book, it’d be probably a checklist of some sort, right? Are you doing this, this, this, this, this? Very linear, very science-based, etc. What was your thought behind that? You could have written a traditional book. You have the ability, the knowledge. You have everything it takes to do a traditional business book. Why this?

Leah Bumphrey: Dennis, I don’t live my life like a checklist. You know that, right? You and I have talked, you and I, and I am always pondering and talking with my kids’ friends, with my clients, with the people that I work with. What if, right? Like, what if? Because the way it’s always been done, the checklist, the do this, do this, and I love having my list, man. You should see my list for today. I’m not going to get it all done, but it’ll be there tomorrow as well. And there’s that satisfying feeling you get when you actually do something.

Dennis Collins: I love it. Check it off.

Leah Bumphrey: But this will give you some insight into how I operate. When I was first back at work, and I was job-sharing actually with my sister, who’s an absolutely phenomenal marketing person, and we decided for a couple of years that we were going to job-share just so that we would have time with our kids and et cetera, et cetera.

So my youngest would have been in preschool at the time, and I love taking my dog for a walk. So I went into southern Saskatoon fields, and just picture, it’s fall, and it’s stunning, and he’s chasing… Garlic. That’s the name of my dog, is chasing ducks all over, and my phone rings. Well, you pick up the phone whether you’re working or not. “I had the baby. That’s on the other end. I had the baby.”

Dennis Collins: You had the baby.

Leah Bumphrey: That’s fantastic. How are you? What did you have? Oh, I had a little girl, and it went good, but you know what? I ended up being by myself, and I got this whole story, and I’m listening, and I’m throwing the Frisbee for the dog, and I’m excited because she had the baby. Which hospital are you in? What did she weigh? Oh, and her hair. Will you come see me? Of course I will come see you. Of course I will come see you. Are you serious? I am there. I’m so excited. I knew you would. I knew you would come if you called. Okay, okay, I’m going to be there. I will be there later in the morning. I get off the phone. I have no idea who I was just talking to, Dennis. I have no clue.

Dennis Collins: You’re kidding.

Leah Bumphrey: I called my sister, my friend, my job share partner. Who do we know? Who do we know that is expecting and who had a baby? Nobody. She’s just, we don’t know anybody. So I tell her the story. She said, you didn’t ask who it was? That could have been the wrong number, and Tamara has very, very colorful language, and she was like, what were you thinking?

So anyways, I get the dog in. I go home. I go to the hospital. I go up to admitting. I need some help. There’s a little girl born. I need to know what room. I explain the situation. They give me the room number. Okay, when I see this woman, I’m going to know who it is, right? So I go to the gift store, and I get a pink blanket and a little pink teddy bear, and I go walking up there, and I walk into the room, and there’s the exhausted mom sleeping on the bed, and there’s this beautiful little baby in the bassinet, and I’ve never seen this mom before in my life. I have no idea who she is. No idea, Dennis.

Dennis Collins: No idea.

Leah Bumphrey: So I walk out of the room, and I’m going, oh, my goodness. What do I do? Well, this gal had been crying. Come and see me. Come and see me. So I went in, and hi, honey. How are you? How are you doing? I’m Leah. Oh, I’m doing better. I’m feeling a little bit better and everything. Oh, I said, baby is beautiful. I said, you don’t actually know me, but you and I had a beautiful conversation on the phone this morning. What? Well, fast forward through the day. I got to hold her baby. I was helping her out with a few things here. Her spouse wasn’t around. We had never met before. She dialed the wrong number. Yeah. But did she dial the wrong number? Did she dial the wrong number?

Dennis Collins: Maybe not.

Leah Bumphrey: So I’m telling the boys that night, and when I say the boys, I include the three boys and Sean, and I’m chopping onions for supper, and I get a phone call, and it’s this mom who now has her husband with her, and they’re cuddling up this beautiful little baby. She says, I have to ask a question. Absolutely. I said, I’m making supper, but what do you need? I’ll drop it off, whatever. No, no, no. She says, would you mind terribly if we name our little girl Leah? Because you came.

Dennis Collins: Wow.

Leah Bumphrey: Wow. Then the waterworks and everything, and then proceeded a beautiful relationship with this gal who’s now in her late teens, and they no longer live in Saskatoon. But you know what? Every Christmas, I have a little bunch of ornaments from her. And you know what? What is the story? This is a story of what if. This is a story of doing things a little bit differently. This is a story of, you know what? You don’t know where something’s going to lead, so why don’t you grab it and shake it out and be there for someone?

And with this, if there is one parent out there, one business owner who reads this and gets through it because it’s written as a story, and I believe stories are valuable, and you know that there’s science behind that. Very much. It gives us a whole what if that otherwise we wouldn’t have. So that’s why you sometimes have to do things differently. You just have to because you don’t know what might happen.

Dennis Collins: Let’s just now kind of dissect what you just said. You just told us an amazing story. You know that. You’re an amazing storyteller. You just walked us through this whole mystery and how it resolved and, what the problems were. First of all, how many people would have gone and checked out the hospital? You are probably one of a very few. Most people would just say, oh, well, it was wrong number, no big deal, and move on. And then you walked us through this whole thing. I was on the edge of my chair here. How did this resolve? How did this turn out?

Leah Bumphrey: But see, Dennis, and I know I always get that reaction from people. Not many people have done that. But I honestly believe that anybody who gets that call, they are given that call. And this is whatever the call is. If you get that opportunity, it’s because you are someone that will go to the hospital. You will, right? You will, because otherwise it’s going to haunt you the rest of your life.

Just like the gal who helped me organize and pulled out the envelope and was encouraging me because I was not going to do this again. I was not going to let somebody tell me that, I was just basically a musing mom that was going through postpartum. I wouldn’t have done that.

Dennis Collins: I can’t see you doing that.

Leah Bumphrey: No, but it could have easily been. But the gal who looked at that and said that, she had that opportunity. We can always say no, Dennis. Every day we can say no, but we can say yes. And when we say yes…

Dennis Collins: Wow. I want to capture what you just said. Yes, we always have the opportunity to choose to say no, but we can also choose to say yes. In fact, there’s a whole book written about that. I forget what the title is. It’s about how I learned to say yes or something like that. And it’s all about the change in this woman’s life who wrote it when she started saying yes. Okay. And so all of a sudden, this book is more than just a marketing book. It’s more than just musings from a relational marketing mom. It is inspiration about follow these leads, follow these things that appear to be, coincidences. They’re not. There’s a reason that this happened. They are not.

Leah Bumphrey: It is so important. It is so important. I’ve had a lot of people ask because I was really thrilled. I was at home early, just after five in the morning, sipping coffee, planning out my day, and I had an email and it was Roy H. Williams, and all three of us are greatly inspired by him. And he had read the manuscript and he sent me a forward for my book. Now, I, in a trillion years, would never have asked him for a forward because, first of all, I can’t afford him. Secondly, I can’t afford him. And thirdly, like, who asks?

You can’t ask for something like that from somebody where obviously there’s a self-interest there. There would have been. But he read it and he decided to do it. So here’s an example of a guy. He said yes. Right. And he looked at some of the people that had also helped me and went, hmm, there’s merit here. And so you see how everything just comes together. That’s business.

Dennis Collins: I see producer Paul lurking on the screen. He has something to add.

Paul Boomer: Of course I do. And like you, whenever I get on. Yeah. Anyway, so for those of you who are listening to this podcast, not watching, you have to see when you have a moment to go to YouTube and watch Leah tell this story, because most of the time she’s sitting back. But when she’s telling these stories, she’s leaning into the computer, leaning into it. And her passion is bubbling and boiling over, which is wonderful.

And I have a question for you, Leah, regarding that, is your approach to this book embraces a blend of practicality and a ton of heart. And as Dennis just said, this isn’t just about a marketing book. It’s more than that. I want to know how can business leaders maintain that balance of practicality and the heart that you have when making tough decisions?

Leah Bumphrey: That’s an interesting question because you have to have that balance of it. You can’t just, every time somebody walks into your store, give stuff away for free because you know that they need financial help. You can’t just hire people off the street who are obviously not fit for your business. But I think that it is really important to, I heard today, actually I was listening to a podcast and they were talking about the three tenets of moving forward positively in life. And they talked about being healthy and fitness and also taking time to do things for other people, right?

So those are three pretty powerful things. And the one thing that they forgot, and we’ve all heard the three-legged stool before, right? So it’s other people become family and self and business. But you also have to remember that there’s a spiritual side to all of us. Something bigger than us where you have to ponder why is it that you’re being given an opportunity to do something good? And what should you be doing? And I think that we get in, I get, nobody likes mentioning the G word.

Nobody likes mentioning that, you know what, there is a spiritual aspect to our lives, but there is. And if you don’t take three minutes in the day to just at the beginning of your day, have some gratitude to something greater than yourself. Wow, you’re going to have a hard time being open to those opportunities that are going to present themselves because you’re not being open in that with the four stools. And the three stool, I don’t know if you guys ever milked a cow, but when you’re milking a cow and you have, I mean, they actually have stools that have one leg so that you can be bouncing around with the cow and, be moving around.

Then they have the three, and I think they just did that because they ran out of wood. But when you have a stool that has four legs, you are powerful. And here I am, I see myself now leaning into it, but there’s different ways of practicing spirituality. There’s different ways of recognizing that you’re not the only game in town and there’s something grander than yourself, but recognize that and be open and be thankful for the fact that you have an opportunity to do something and things present. Things will present. So important.

Dennis Collins: Wow, that is just really inspirational. I mean, let me ask you this. What conversation are you hoping will start as a result of this book?

Leah Bumphrey: I actually was talking with a woman, a mom, a couple weeks ago. She didn’t know I had written this book. She was referred to me by another client. And Dennis, she’s not, and Paul, she’s not someone that the three of us would be able to help as a small business in terms of, she wouldn’t be able to afford to hire us. Her volume isn’t enough. What she’s doing isn’t enough. But in the conversations that she and I had, she became so animated and it’s because she received some clarity on what it was that she wanted to do, what it was that was important to her.

And I wasn’t, I didn’t tell her, oh, by the way, I wrote a book. Please go on Amazon and buy it. That never, ever came up. I’m going to send her a copy of the book just because this is a woman that I feel an affinity with and I can see that she’s really wanting to make a difference in her business and for her kids and for her spouse. But these questions brought her to a crossroads. And we know the poem by Robert Frost, right? Two paths diverge in a woods, one over there, one over there. There is nothing wrong with taking the path that everybody goes on. That is not a bad thing. But give yourself the option, at least know that there’s a choice.

Dennis Collins: Exactly.

Leah Bumphrey: So that’s what I want.

Dennis Collins: That’s very interesting. That really clarifies it for me. And that’s very inspirational as well. Has writing this book changed you in any way? I mean, this has been a long time coming. It’s a manuscript that you started probably 20 some years ago and just recently brought it to completion. How has it changed you, Leah? How has it changed your marketing, your outlook on marketing?

Leah Bumphrey: What it’s done, it’s forced me to see some differences in what I would have said a year ago. Like, it’s really easy to have, and I don’t know if it’s, we all can have a false sense of humility or a false sense of, and it’s not false, like you really feel like, okay, I’m not real. Don’t know this stuff. But it has forced me to see that I know stuff. And there are people that don’t know what I know. And my stuff is not necessarily grandiose, and it certainly isn’t to do with how should I be arranging my files on my computer. But the stuff that I know can make a difference.

And at the end of the day, if I can talk to a young mom who is stressing about real life and be able to give her a hand, or if I can talk to a family-run business where the mom’s at home and the dad is working hard and he’s, trying to decide do I get my son involved or do I advocate for him to go and go to school for something else? I know stuff. And I am someone who is, I’m pretty easy to talk to.

Now, not for everyone. It also helps me because some people that, yeah, there’s here and there. But I think it’s just an opportunity to make that difference, to help people give their head a shake and realize, hey, you can go here or you can go here. One of the best pieces of advice I was ever given by another mom, and she was a senior mom to me back in the day, was, and I was being stressed because I was asked to do this and this and this and this and this and this and this, while running a business and running a household. And she said to me, all you have to say is that doesn’t work for me.

I went, no, no, no. I cannot say that, Maureen. Like, that’s not possible because this has to be done. Okay, but you were just asked to do. Just say it doesn’t work for you. Okay, but I can make it work. No, you don’t owe people an explanation. You don’t have to say it doesn’t work for me because. And her advice was just say it doesn’t work for me.

Leah Bumphrey: And the first time I did, I broke out into a cold sweat because the mom that was asking me, who was a senior, senior Uber mom, a little scary, was very, very direct. And I did what Maureen said to me. I just kept, I had to say it three times. It doesn’t work for me. Because if someone is so pushy that they’re going to say, well, Dennis, why doesn’t it? Why doesn’t it? What business? That’s when I go to the bathroom. Like, what business is it of theirs to know why it doesn’t work for you? It doesn’t work. And there is such a freedom. And I found it so freeing to be given permission to just say, that doesn’t work for me. Wow.

Paul Boomer: I love that. That’s beautiful. I want to dive deeper into that, Leah. And I fear and I’m excited about this conversation because we’re already about 40 minutes in. And I think we could continue to have this conversation for periods of time. Part four, five, six, whatever. But you talk about the balancing family and business like you just did. And I want to know specifically what advice. I want you to go deeper into what you just said. What advice do you give business owners who are balancing that personal life and the business life?

Dennis Collins: Good question.

Leah Bumphrey: Well, and it’s interesting because I now have a notebook and I’m writing all this stuff down because that’s what comes next, because that’s the question that comes from anybody who’s read the book. I don’t care, mom, dad, grandma, business owner who’s thinking about having kids. Integration is key. If you are running a business, and I don’t care at what level, but if you are running your own business, so you’re in sales or you have people working for you, if you are not somehow making it work.

And think back 50 years ago, Dennis, Paul, the corner store where it was, we thought you Canadians, we had it was the Vietnamese boat people. That’s how we referred to them in Saskatchewan. And they were in every small town running a convenience store. They were running the convenience store and that thing was open 20 hours a day. But after school, the kids were coming over and they were doing their homework there. They were busy doing, helping unpack boxes. It was fully integrated. Those families thrived in our Canadian environment because they couldn’t believe how easy it was to integrate. Now, not all of us have that type of business, but that same premise can be there.

The other thing is not to make yourself feel bad about the things that you’re not able to do. We had a rule at our house during the school year, and I kept life easy by the boys going to community school so they could walk home from school every day. And there were really good reasons for that. I can look back and go, oh, if I would have known this, this, and this, I might have done that differently. But we made that decision and we went for it. And the boys walked in at the end of the day. Nine times out of ten, I was home.

If I wasn’t able to be home, they knew that there was a slow cooker of food sitting on the counter. And whatever was in there was ready to eat. Because what happens when kids come home from school? They are starving. And if they’re busy and they’re involved in a whole bunch of activities, whether you’re taking them, your spouse is taking them, grandma and grandpa are taking them, an aunt and uncle, doesn’t matter. They’re going to be hungry and you want to feel good about the fact that they’re eating some carrots and some beef and some onions that have been bubbling all day.

So what did that require? That required throwing that in in the morning at five in the morning. What you see that’s that 24-hour clock, that’s what’s important. But if people know who you are in your life, that includes your kids knowing, your business partners knowing, your clients knowing, it gives you a freedom to really be who you are. So nobody is surprised when I’m saying, oh, I’ve got to run because this is happening.

Dennis Collins: I have tremendous respect for what you and working moms do. I had a staff of most, I think my staff at the radio stations in Miami were, it was 60% female. And a lot of those females had families. They had spouses or significant others. They were not alone and they had to juggle all this. And they did it. And a man, we generally don’t understand what that means. We are the recipient of that service, if you will. We are not the deliverer of that service. That’s the way it works out most of the time, right or wrong.

So just one last question on relational marketing. Now, I know this is more than just a marketing book, but I would love to hear from you and your experience over many years in helping small business owners. What’s the difference between relational marketing and other marketing? There are other forms of marketing, but you are an advocate of relational marketing. What, as a small business owner, what should I know that will make a difference?

Paul Boomer: But that’s not the last question because I have a follow-up question on that one, Dennis. Sorry, I’m getting us off that right there. I have another question, but…

Dennis Collins: Okay, go on.

Leah Bumphrey: Okay, and you guys have to save some of this for when the next book comes out.

Dennis Collins: Oh my gosh, there’s another book. Okay. Oh, you’re lucky.

Leah Bumphrey: You guys have first dibs, absolutely. Relational marketing, Dennis, is, and I mean, think of the word relational or branding. I like calling it relational much better because I want to form a relationship with the people that we’re talking to right now. Anybody who has listened to any number of our podcasts know you’re the science nerd. I’m the one that brings it back to the heart and to the story. I’m from Canada. I can tell by your tan that you’re down in Florida, but relational means that you are forming a relationship, that it’s really important for you to bond with your clients.

Now, not all advertising is relational, but if most of it is and it should be, it allows you to show consistency. It allows you to give a moment to people who are listening, seeing, reading your ads, a moment where they go, oh yeah, those guys. Oh yeah, those guys. I was thinking the other day of one of the first times I saw Roy Williams and he was in an auditorium. There was well over a thousand local Saskatchewan businesses. Rawlco had brought him in and he said, okay, so this morning when you went through the paper and you looked at the ad for the fridge, and that’s back in the day when the newspaper was delivered to every home.

Leah Bumphrey: And what did I do first thing in the morning before the kids were up? I would go through. What came into my, oh yeah, that fridge ad, right? Well, I noticed the fridge ad. Why? We just bought a fridge. That’s why I noticed that. I don’t care $899. And I remember it was exactly what Roy said. I looked at it and I went, I got a better deal than that. Do I remember who that ad was for? I haven’t a clue.

Whoever it is, I know they’re not in business anymore. But when my client who sells appliances has a message on the radio and it is about a connection that he feels towards people that need his appliances, and he’s telling a story about this couple that came in and what a hassle it was for them to get it out because they had to go out of town. And I’m following this whole story. I’m not looking for a fridge, but I’m following it. And one day when I’m looking for a fridge, it’s just going to pop into my mind because he’s taken the time to form a relationship with me.

Dennis Collins: That’s interesting. Well, that’s a great…

Leah Bumphrey: Anything that you do consistently, if it’s health-related, if it’s learning-related, if it’s business-related, if it’s advertising-related, if you do it consistently, wow, you have a road. You’ve got a highway. It’s nice and straight and people are going to wave you over.

Dennis Collins: What a beautiful definition. And you always do it with story. Listen to her, ladies and gentlemen, always has a story. Just like Boomer, he’s got a story. I know he has a question.

Paul Boomer: I have many stories, but this is going to be a question. And this is a challenge question, Leah. So in your book, you don’t necessarily criticize businesses who prioritize profit over people, but you certainly push on it. And you emphasize business growth and success. Is there a risk that relational marketing is just another tactic to make money while appearing more authentic? How do you respond to the cynics?

Leah Bumphrey: Absolutely, absolutely, that is a risk. People use whatever means they can to make money, and there’s nothing wrong with making money, but if that is your primary motivation in why you’re using relational marketing, it won’t be sustainable. And we talked about consistency. It won’t be sustainable. Think about, I use the example of a fast food restaurant, and it was used for a number of reasons in the book, one of which, it’s a place where families go, right?

Because it’s no longer the inexpensive option that people went to four years ago, but they have tried to piggyback onto relational marketing because of, charity work that they do, because families, kids playing in a playroom and being able to have a hamburger is a big deal. So they’ve tried to do this, but what has ended up rearing its head over the past 40 years is if you really care about families, there’s the health aspect of it, right? Like the actual health aspect. You can’t fake that. You can’t fake that except some people who really don’t care.

So business is, it never ends the quest for dollars. That will never end, the quest for making money. The quest for making a relationship with the people who are hearing your ads, what I’m posing is, you want to make a difference? You want to make a name for yourself? You want to make cash? You pick one of the three that is the most important, and none of them are bad, but they all have to inform the other. They all have to be part of the other.

Dennis Collins: We’ve actually done podcasts on this, haven’t we, Leah, about selling with a purpose. And, this is a long time ago, I don’t remember when it was, but I think the topic was something like this. If your sales effort is all about, hey, what can I sell you today? Or is it how can I help you today? Okay? Even a small thing like that, which sounds small, that’s huge.

The attitude of whoever is doing the selling, and one of them is what we would call a transactional question, right? The other is a relational question. How can I help you today? And I may not be able to help you today, and I understand that, but I’m going to try. And the best way for me to figure that out is to listen carefully to what you need. And if I can’t help you, I’ll tell you. If I can, I’ll tell you how.

Leah Bumphrey: That sounds a lot like science.

Dennis Collins: Now, I was trying to be relational. Come on.

Leah Bumphrey: We always have a…

Dennis Collins: There is science behind it. The mentality that the, quote, seller, whoever that person may be, comes at the transaction, oftentimes determines the reaction of the customer.

Leah Bumphrey: Yeah, that’s right.

Dennis Collins: And there is science behind that. But, I try to be relational in parts of my life.

Leah Bumphrey: Well, we always have a challenge for our listeners. And even as the interviewee, I have a challenge. Set your timer and give yourself 10 minutes. As a business owner, as a salesperson, as someone who is pondering what it is that you do, because you know in your head something that you realize you should be doing, and you’re not, and it’s for a reason. And write down those thoughts, and then think about them. But give yourself 10 minutes, and when the timer goes off, stop doing it. It’s 10 minutes. Everybody has 10 minutes. And tell us what occurred to you.

And I have five copies of my book that have postage paid to anyone who will share that with us with their actual mailing address, and we will get it sent off to you. Because there’s five people out there listening who are going, oh. And by all means, you’ll get it quicker if you go through Amazon. But I’ve got five for you. Do not let the fact that you have to go on and order it stop you. Because whether you’ve started your business or you’re going to start it, I want you to read this book.

Dennis Collins: And getting it straight from Leah is better because she’s going to sign it for you. And possibly, knowing her, will write you a note of appreciation. So that is more valuable than anything we can get from Amazon, right? Absolutely.

Paul Boomer: So, hey, Dennis.

Dennis Collins: Hey, Paul.

Paul Boomer: I just want to say that we have one heck of an interview today. Our guest, wow. Phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. Wouldn’t you say?

Dennis Collins: She’s quite articulate, isn’t she?

Leah Bumphrey: I am glad. I actually had to borrow Peter’s, that’s my 21-year-old, borrow his vehicle to make it in in time this morning because mine’s in the shop right now. So you see what I’m talking about, integration. And I said, you know what, I’m meeting Paul and Dennis and I have to be there really early in the morning. And when your kid hands you the keys to their vehicle, you know things are going well.

Dennis Collins: You’re what I call a logistical expert. You can integrate is the word. I like that word, integrate. You’re a world-class integrator. That’s your new title. World-class.

Leah Bumphrey: There’s one of the chapters and I used the word macrame and I was working with an editor on it and they went, okay, yeah, that’s not a verb. Have you ever seen someone who’s macraming? And you guys, Paul, you’re too young, but the plant holders in the corner, Dennis and I both remember.

Dennis Collins: I know what that is, yeah. I know what it is.

Leah Bumphrey: Wow, yeah, you’ve seen them.

Dennis Collins: But honestly…

Leah Bumphrey: You’ve got to macrame it all together. You have to have, and because we’ve got one shot at this life. Let’s have some fun. Let’s make a difference. We have probably 1,000 people that should be listening to every one of our episodes, and that’s the plan, and we’re going to go there.

Dennis Collins: Wow is all I can say. I knew this would be a fun and informative and inspiring moment with you, Leah. No idea how far wrong I was. It was much deeper than I ever imagined. So, again, I want a couple things in closing. Let’s talk to people how they can get in touch with you. How can we get in touch with Leah?

Leah Bumphrey: LeahBumphrey@wizardofads.com, that’s us.

Dennis Collins: Yep.

Leah Bumphrey: DennisCollins @wizardofads.com as well. I mean, either one of us, we talk. Right, Dennis?

Dennis Collins: A few times, yeah. Once in a while. No, I want people to reach out to you and tell you, not only accept your challenge, which is very generous of you, but to tell you how this book has changed their lives and what this book means to them. I mean, that’s, to me, I love feedback. I think feedback is the breakfast of champions, and I think you do too.

And I’d love to hear some feedback. Send Leah an email. Get the book. It won’t take you long to read it because you won’t put it down. I’ll tell you that right now. You will not put it down once you begin. And send her a note. Tell her what you think of the book, right? And maybe we’ll talk about that on a future podcast. Would that be fun?

Leah Bumphrey: I would love that. That’d be fantastic. I’m looking forward to hearing from people.

Dennis Collins: Thank you. A million thank yous, number one, for having the courage to write the book, even after being told it’s garbage, to stand up and say, no, no, no, no, no, no. I know I have something to say. Thank you for inspiring not just moms, but people in general who are balancing, who are trying to survive, right, with all the things coming at them. Thank you for giving us the inspiration. Thanks for talking about marketing. I mean, to our small business owners, if you’re not using relational marketing, let this be a gentle wake-up call.

It’s life-changing. It’s business-changing. It is the way to go. We know that. We practice that every day. We know it can work for you. So give Leah a chance. She’d love to meet some new people and to tell you how she can help you. Okay? Leah, is there anything else you’d like to say that hasn’t been said?

Leah Bumphrey: Just, you know what? What if? What if you said yes to that opportunity to do something? Absolutely. What if you notice that lady sitting over on the bench and you just go up and say, I wanted to tell you that that color looks fantastic on you or that this guy over here who looks a little bit confused. Are you looking for an address? What if you did that?

Dennis Collins: What if?

Leah Bumphrey: What’s the worst that can happen? What’s the best that can happen? We are all given opportunities every day to make some kind of a difference. If we all took advantage of one of those opportunities, we are building a fabulous bridge between people. And isn’t that why we’re all here?

Dennis Collins: I believe so, and I think that is a perfect way to put a cap on this edition of the podcast. Excellent. Leah, thank you. A million thank yous. I look forward to seeing you on future podcasts. Who knows? Maybe we’ll do another on this. I think there’s a lot more questions, but for now, I am going to say to our listeners, our viewers, thank you for tuning in to Connect and Convert. We’ll be back soon with another episode. Connect and Convert, the small business insider secret podcast, the sales accelerator podcast. Tune in again. For Dennis and Leah and Paul, see you next time…

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