Dear Reader,

Let’s Talk About Origins and Ice Cream,

A boy walks into a corner store with a dollar in his hand.

There’s a freezer next to the register — just a beat-up white box with a sticker on the front that says Lemon Ice. That’s it. No logo. No mascot. No brand.

The boy grabs one and takes it to the counter. The man behind him in line says,

“My mama used to make those. We’d squeeze lemons into test tubes and freeze them. Sold them one at a time on the streets of the Bronx.”

That dollar didn’t buy sugar.

It bought a story.

A mother’s work.

A boy’s memory.

The beginning of something that mattered.

That’s the power of an origin story.

Now think about Haagen-Dazs.

They have a story just like that—a widowed mother and her son in 1921, hustling popsicles to survive. But you’ve never heard it. They buried the truth beneath a fancy name and a brand that whispers “luxury” but never says “human.”

Ben and Jerry didn’t do that.

They gave their ice cream a face, a voice, and a reason to believe. Their names were the brand. Their beliefs were in every flavor. People didn’t just like the product. They loved the people behind it.

And that’s what makes a great origin story.

Not polish.

Not perfection.

But purpose. Personality. Truth.

In today’s episode, Roy and I unpack why the most unforgettable brands begin with a beginning. We’ll talk about hardship, honesty, the difference between vulnerability and oversharing—and how to craft the kind of founding story that gives your business a soul.

Because people don’t remember features.

They remember your stories.

 

 

Watch / listen above or read below.

Todd Liles: Roy, I want to talk about origin stories. It is one of my absolute favorite topics. In fact, my two favorite parts of literature are always the origin story and the denouement. I want to know, where do these people come from and what happened to them? I find that more interesting than the middle of the story itself.

I don’t know if that makes me unique. I kind of think it does. But I think that the origin, knowing where something comes from and why it existed is the most interesting part of anything, especially, by the way, this is going to make me weird. My favorite origin stories are actually the origin stories of villains.

Roy Williams: Yeah.

Todd Liles: I want to know, how did Freddy Krueger become Freddy Krueger? Why is Jason, Jason? I love the stories.

Roy Williams: What causes this person? See, when a person has a bizarre belief system, a belief system totally foreign to you. What caused this person to think, act, speak, and see the world the way they do? And so that’s part of the origin story, and it’s even more bizarre, and even more interesting and unexpected when you understand why the villain, how the villain became a villain, what triggered that in him and/or her.

I want to go back to the other thing you said. You said, maybe this makes me unique. But it’s basically the beginning of the story and the conclusion, the climax of the story, when it reaches its quintessential moment that interests you the most. Well, okay, there’s what’s called the law of primacy and the law of recency, and you can Google this, you can look it up on Wikipedia.

These are psychological laws. And any list or any sequence or series, the very first thing in the series and the very last thing in the series are the most easily remembered. First line of a poem or a song. Once you say the first line, people remember the rest of the poem. But the first line is the most memorable. And the conclusion, boom, that ending is also memorable. So primacy is the first thing you hear. Recency is the last thing you hear, the most recent thing you heard. So the last closing words of something.

Or even in a story, opening, closing. What’s in the middle. And so I always said, look, open big, close big. Even when you’re speaking publicly, walk out, give them an opening they will never forget. And just rock the world. Go, what the heck’s about to happen? And then when you’re closing, close in such a way with enough drama that they go, wow, I didn’t see that coming. And then it’s literally over.

Todd Liles: I love it. So our source material today is going to be four chapters. I’m going to go in the Secret Formula of the Wizard of Ads. Chapter 34, Songs with Words, Pictures and People. In Magical Worlds, we’re going to weave in two chapters. 88, Wieners, Beans, and 530 Million. And 99, another great American story. And the Wizard of Ads is going to be chapter 32, A Few Magic Words. And what I want to kick off here with is Songs With Words and People. And I’m actually going to…

Roy Williams: Songs with Words, Pictures with People.

Todd Liles: Songs with Words, Pictures with People. Thank you. It’s even right here in front of my face. So thank you for that. All right.

In recent weeks, I’ve begun each of my seminars by asking an impromptu question to the audience. Whose corporate image do you prefer, Haagen-Dazs or Ben and Jerry’s? Raising my hand as high as I can extend it, I continue. All of those who prefer the image of Haagen-Dazs, raise your hand. For the next several moments, my hand is the only one raised. Now, those who prefer the image of Ben and Jerry, raise your hand. And every hand in the room goes up in one single motion.

In 1978, childhood buddies Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield scraped together $12,000 to launch an ice cream shop from an abandoned gas station in Vermont. Today, Ben and Jerry are household heroes. Was it the ice cream or was it the advertising? The story of Haagen-Dazs begins with an eight-year-old boy who comes to America with his widowed mother in 1921.

To support themselves, young Reuben and his mom squeezed lemons into test tubes to make refreshing lemon popsicles, which Reuben then sells to grateful people on the street of the Bronx. At age 19, Reuben launches Senator Frozen Products. And at 48, he creates Haagen-Dazs. A product that has taken him 40 years to perfect.

Now, Haagen-Dazs has a fabulous story to tell. So why aren’t they telling it? I believe that Ben and Jerry’s ice cream is more appealing than Haagen-Dazs because it includes two special ingredients. Number one, Ben, and number two, Jerry. In your advertising, never forget, words are electric and people are magnetic. People attract people.

Roy, What did Ben and Jerry’s do right that Haagen-Dazs missed?

Roy Williams: Their brand had personality. As I’ve said before, a brand is a character. It is an entity in the mind of the public. If the brand has a personality, if you understand what causes this company, this brand, to think, speak, act, and see the world the way it does. This brand has a way of looking at things. It has a belief system that I share. I resonate with what these people stand for and what these people believe. So, if there is no personality to the brand like Senator Frozen Confectionaries.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: Senators are not that relatable. A senator is status, and that’s what they were going for. I promise, when he named it Senator, he was thinking of something exclusive and limited and important. And the word Senator captures all that. That’s how morons think of names. And so when you dig into an origin story, I tell you how if Reuben and his mom, remember, a widow and her eight-year-old boy.

Todd Liles: I know.

Roy Williams: Wait a minute. I was a 10-year-old boy holding the flashlight for my dad. I wonder who wrote that. That would be me.

Todd Liles: Yeah.

Roy Williams: If they had named that product Single Mom Popsicles. And they we squeezed lemons into a test tube and to put those test tubes in the freezer. And so the frozen lemon juice, there’s nothing more refreshing than that and blah, blah, blah. And thank you for helping a single mom and her little boy survive in the Bronx.

And so everybody’s saying, I’m going to buy the hell out of those because this is a hard-working woman and her little boy. And this is the American dream. And they could have written the name Single Mom. And then there could be Single Mom Ice Cream. And then she’s gone. And then when the little boy Reuben, is remembering his mom that raised him and he helped her make these popsicles with lemon juice in 1921 and these ice, they could be singing that song today.

Todd Liles: Yeah.

Roy Williams: And everybody would know all the verses of the song. Because single mom in 1921, to be a single mother. I’m not going to use the word widow. Do you know why? It conjured… Go ahead.

Todd Liles: Well, as you say, if you say, and this is where my brain is going. I’m thinking 1921, a very different time. Widow is sad for one.

Roy Williams: Right. And it’s still sad.

Todd Liles: It’s sad. But what’s going through my brain is I wonder if when they hear single mom, like, why is she single?

Roy Williams: Nope. Nope. Nope. See, in 1921 if a woman was single, it’s because her husband died.

Todd Liles: They just know that.

Roy Williams: Yeah, there’s no such thing as divorce in 1920.

Todd Liles: Yeah. They know.

Roy Williams: And if it existed, but it wasn’t spoken of. It never happened. It was only in the ’60s that and the ’70s, that divorce became common and acceptable. Because 1969, when my dad left, there was no such word as divorcee. And nobody knew what to do with a divorced woman. They didn’t know how to be a friend with her. They didn’t know what to say to her. They didn’t know how to treat her.

She had no place in American society in 1969. She couldn’t run around with married people. She couldn’t run around with single people. She was literally a third wheel. She was an outcast. And so, having lived that, see, I was 12. And having lived that, having watched it, having been raised by a single mom, I can tell you that people have always had empathy for a single mom trying to take care of a household. How she became a single mom, it’s not that big of a deal to anybody. Never has been. Now, widow, the color of widowhood is black.

Todd Liles: It’s black.

Roy Williams: Yeah. And it’s like, yeah, we’re not going to use the word widow. Only an idiot would use the word widow.

Todd Liles: You see veils, you see sadness. You see tears.

Roy Williams: Remember single woman is sexual. But single mom is responsible. This means that she has a child for whom she has to provide alone, without help. Now, that is a cry to you that you should help this woman. She’s doing everything she can, making popsicles in the freezers with her little boy. I’m going to buy the hell out of some popsicles because I believe in this woman and I admire her courage, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

You can trigger all of that. And so he gets to tell… He gets to be the spokesperson. See, if she told the story, if the single mom herself told the story, then it’s a woman just pulling on your heartstrings, and it feels like manipulation. But if the little boy tells the story that, I love my mom, and my mom has more courage than anybody I’ve ever seen in my life or anybody I’ve ever met.

And he idolizes his mom and all the things that his mom taught him by just showing him, but just by being the shining example of all of these virtues. And if he’s talking about his amazing mom and what he learned from her, you like that guy. Why? Because he loves his mother. That’s why you like the guy.

Todd Liles: You sort of… You went into what was my second question, which is, why does vulnerability make such an interesting origin story? You’ve got that wildly covered now. That makes total sense to me. What’s fascinating to me is that whether Reuben or someone in his court was advising him, I don’t know if he did it himself or someone said, hey, you need to do this thing. He never embraced his real reality. Senator, Haagen-Dazs. Their brand, even to this day is luxury and over the top. Now, they’re still here. So, good for them.

Roy Williams: I’m sure. Yeah. They make good ice cream.

Todd Liles: They make good. It’s really good ice cream.

Roy Williams: And they’ve been here longer than Ben and Jerry.

Todd Liles: Which is interesting. Yeah.

Roy Williams: So the fact is, they were the original premium ice cream. The original and the only premium ice cream. Now, once you’ve achieved that, once you have first mover status, first mover is the first one to make a big name doing something. The second person in that category is Burger King, following McDonald’s.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: And I’m saying it’s hard to overtake the first mover if they get big. And they’re already big, and you come along, then you get to be number two forever. But being number two behind a gigantic number one. Now, Ben and Jerry did actually overtake Haagen-Dazs, I think. I don’t know that for sure.

Todd Liles: I don’t know.

Roy Williams: But I’m assuming they did. Go ahead.

Todd Liles: Well, so this is where my question’s going to come into. One, it’s about the personal brand. And I know for a very, very long time, business owners have been told, don’t build a personal brand because you can’t sell it. You build a personal brand, no one’s going to want to buy it. They have all these reasons why.

So my question is actually about the marketer. Are marketers doing this because they’re just uneducated? Is it a self-preservation move? Why are they giving this advice that basically says keep yourself out of it?

Roy Williams: Because at a very superficial level, it makes sense and it makes you sound smart. Now, if you actually look at Kentucky Fried Chicken, KFC. I remember when Colonel Harland Sanders was still alive. Now, he was not the spokesperson for Kentucky Fried Chicken in a meaningful way until after he sold it.

He sold Kentucky Fried Chicken, I think for $8 million when he sold it. And it was the new owners that go, okay, goofy looking white-haired guy with a little black bolo tie and a white suit. By the way, Kentucky Colonels. Kentucky Colonels is a social club, kind of like the Lions Club or the Kiwanis Club or the Rotary Club.

Todd Liles: Awesome.

Roy Williams: And there’s 30,000 Kentucky Colonels in Kentucky.

Todd Liles: This is fantastic.

Roy Williams: And so Colonel Sanders in his little white suit with his little black bow tie.

Todd Liles: He’s a Kentucky Colonel.

Roy Williams: Yeah. So Colonel Sanders, yeah, it’s kind of like saying Rotary Club member of so and so, but outside of Kentucky, nobody knew that. And so he was this colorful, interesting character. And they built KFC and even today they have the little cartoon of the guy even in the KFC logo. It’s the little reversed out white inside of a solid color square, if I recall correctly.

My point is this; the number of times that the spokesperson has remained associated with a brand like Ben and Jerry, you can’t say that company can’t be sold. Are you crazy? I mean, there was never an Aunt Jemima, but we believed there was. And so it’s like, oh, no. To have a literal person as the icon. Betty Crocker. There was never a Betty Crocker either. But they made us think there was. And so to say that a brand can’t be sold when it’s built around a personality is, on the surface, idiotic.

And I’m just going… There’s just no evidence for that. But it makes you sound like a smart little moron to go, oh, you can’t sell it if it’s about you. And I’m going, shut up. The rest of you are trying to build relatable emotional connection when there is no person to connect with.

Let me explain something to you. Nobody bonds with a brand that doesn’t have a personality. Now, Steve Jobs was the personality of Apple and then that personality was embedded throughout the brand itself. So that even after Steve Jobs was dead, the brand lived on. Why? Because the brand itself and all the characters and the spokespersons for the brand. I’m a Mac, I’m a PC. I’m a PC, I’m a Mac. Remember that one?

Todd Liles: Oh, absolutely.

Roy Williams: And then think different?

Todd Liles: Absolutely.

Roy Williams: And all the beliefs, the outlook, the way that Apple would think, speak, act, and see the world originated with its founder. He actually wrote the… There are 17 people featured in the Think Different campaign. He actually chose them and wrote the original ad.

Todd Liles: Roy, would you be happy to know that that’s our campaign ad today that we’re going to look at as well? Isn’t it amazing how…

Roy Williams: This looks like a setup doesn’t it?

Todd Liles: But it’s definitely not. It’s definitely not.

Roy Williams: You and I have that weird spiritual connection.

Todd Liles: It is a deep spiritual connection. I want to talk about wieners and beans, because I love wieners and beans, and $530 million. This is from the magical world book. I’m going to read a couple highlights. I’m not going to read the entire chapter.

So Evan Chrapko and his brother Shane sold their two-year-old internet business for more than half a billion dollars. And unless I miss my guess, right now you’re probably thinking, so two guys made a lot of money on the internet startup, big deal. Lots of techies called it cashed in for big bucks in the late ’90s.

My only problem is that I wasn’t an internet techie. Well, Roy, you go on to tell a story about these two brothers working really, really hard on a farm with their mom and dad. And people don’t realize this, but when these two brothers were trying to make it, they were literally eating wieners and beans because that’s all they had. And they were sleeping in their offices while they dedicated everything to this people, to this business.

So people who know them best characterize their greatest assets as being the following. Number one, their deep trust they have in their friends and in each other. Number two, their passion for an idea. And number three, their willingness to follow through on a plan regardless of the barriers. Their single biggest worry that they had will be how to give their children the hardships that made them rich. Their second biggest worry will be the motivators of all people who want to be their friends.

So you’ve got these two guys that have always worked hard together. They’ve always been there together. They’ve sacrificed. It very much reminds me of my two good friends, James and Michael Kuzmanoski, whose parents immigrated from Macedonia to Australia, and his mom and dad are both working two jobs. And James and Michael basically raised each other. They got themselves to school, they got themselves on the bus, they educated themselves.

All the while, this mom and dad are doing everything they can to support them. And now they’ve built this amazingly successful business in Australia. And they are so deeply bonded to each other. You’ve never seen two people like this. It reminds me of the Chrapko brothers. So since we are talking about origin stories, and this also reminds me a little bit of Elmer’s.

We’re not going to play the ad here, but if you want to check out the $100 million mindset, watch with Roy and I, where Elmer goes over being raised by his single mom and his mom working so hard. But the bottom line is, people really respond to hardship to triumph stories. And it seems pretty obvious as to why, but I want to get your take on that.

Roy Williams: Well, hardship to success is a story of hope. In other words, anytime people respond to this person won all of this infinite amount of money in the lottery. Why is that news? Because it says that it could happen to you, too.

Or somebody was raised really poor and they worked really hard and they believed in their idea and they didn’t give up. And this was back in the ’90s when $530 million was considerably more money than it is today. And it’s still a lot of money today, but not like it was back then. Half a billion, are you kidding me? That was like nuts money 30 years ago, 25 years ago.

And so, whenever you hear those stories, it’s the American dream. It’s local boy makes good, the local girl becomes internationally famous. And everybody is proud of that because it says, it could happen to me, too. It could happen to my children, too. And that idea of America being the land of opportunity, why do we love to say that?

Because those kinds of things can happen, and they will happen to the people who really want them to happen and take the chances and stick with it and don’t give up. And all of those things that are the things you read on calendars, you know what I mean? And little books of motivational quotations. It’s because they give us hope.

Todd Liles: So, with this idea of hope, I’ve told you my origin stories, and some of them, you’re like, we’re definitely going to tell that. And some of the others is like, not yet. Because anytime that someone’s gone through hardship, there typically is a marriage of either bad things that have happened to them or even bad choices that they made that in retrospect, they’ve outgrown that person and that’d be embarrassing to tell the world.

You recognize what parts to leave in and what parts to leave out. So, hopefully, the listener is beginning to realize the nuance. It’s just very difficult to do this on your own. But let’s say that they don’t, and they’re going to try to do this on their own. What would you say to that person? Like, okay, listen, if you’re going to do that, definitely don’t put this in. What would be an example of something that could be dangerous for them to put in?

Roy Williams: Right. Well, let me tell you how to recognize it first. When I talk about vulnerability is the only currency that will purchase trust. You have to share something that the average person would be too proud to share, too egotistical to share, too afraid to share, because they want you… They want to be admired.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: Okay. People that want to be admired, even though you might admire them, you don’t really feel a bond or a closeness or a trust with them. Okay. So what’s the difference between sharing and oversharing? Oversharing is when you share something that makes people uncomfortable.

And so if you’re sharing something and it gives people a deeper understanding of what made you who you are, and they get it, they understand it, they can relate to it, and it reminds them of themselves, or maybe their mom or their dad or their best friend or somebody that they know, but yours is not an uncommon story. They just never knew it happened to you. Now they know it did. Now they think they understand you better.

Todd Liles: Yeah.

Roy Williams: But if you tell them something that makes them uncomfortable. Yeah, that was a dumb.

Todd Liles: I can run the risk of oversharing, and I’m thankful that I’ve got my team behind. I’m very thankful I’ve got my team behind the editing bay now, and it’s not me. So I’m like, no, no, no, I’m not making the edits. I’m trusting other people to make the edits, which is good. Do you remember your friend that you and Pennie met, Eduardo Prada, and his wife?

Roy Williams: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Todd Liles: Tell us a little bit about his story of his two big losses before he made it big. Do you recall that?

Roy Williams: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I was invited to Guatemala. And Antigua, Guatemala, is one of the oldest cities in the Western Hemisphere. It’s gorgeous. And as a matter of fact, I got to share this because I’m really proud of it. And so, remember, this is right after… This would have been about 1998, 1999, right after the Wizard of Ads was published.

And so it was in Brazil. A Brazilian publisher picked it up, and that book was published in lots and lots and lots and lots of different languages. And one of those was Brazil. And so the largest university, big private college, it’s unbelievable money, flew me to Brazil to speak to the students of this university. And then, the next day, they took me to this hotel, was the morning where the place where we were staying. When I signed in at this hotel, it was built like in the 1500s. Maybe, I don’t know. It was like, not long after Columbus.

Todd Liles: It was old.

Roy Williams: It’s super old. There’s this huge once upon a time, a nunnery or a monastery or something. Huge, gorgeous. On the water. And because they decided I was really important, they had this huge guest book that they had had for like 500 years. And I signed the guest book.

Todd Liles: Very cool.

Roy Williams: Now, here’s what’s interesting. So I was the first person to be made a knight since… In Guatemala, since King Philip II. And so this was like back not long after Columbus. And so guess who signed just above me? I was signing right after President Bill Clinton.

Todd Liles: Oh, come on.

Roy Williams: And so Bill Clinton was the guy to sign it, and then I signed it. And the second person to be made a knight in Guatemala was the head of FIFA, the World Soccer Organization. And so one of the world’s richest people. And I forget his name, but he was the second guy to be knighted in Guatemala. Now, I just told that story because it’s fascinating to me, because I never expected that kind of weird crap to happen. Now, when I…

Todd Liles: I just wrote down to, from this point forward, you are Sir Roy H. Williams.

Roy Williams: Yeah, there you go. And so got a little scroll and stuff lambskin scroll, a little bit. Now, here’s what happened. The knighthood had to happen in a Catholic church. I went to this ancient Catholic church, and Eduardo Prada is the commendador. The commendador of Guatemala, had only assigned 12 helpers.

Now, nobody had done this. There had not been a commendador since for like 200 years. So he was the first commendador that was made. And so the King of Spain could say, this is my commendador for life. He is the arm of the king in this place. And so by charter, they could have one. And I was the first of the 12 people that he announced, you’re going to help me help Guatemala.

Todd Liles: Cool.

Roy Williams: It’s an honor. And then it had to happen in a Catholic church, and it had to be in Spanish. Number one, I’m not Catholic. Number two, I don’t understand a word of Spanish. And so there were certain times you need to stand up. There are certain times you need to sit down.

And I have a trick. I just once I understand the rules, the first person I see move, I pop up like I know what to do. And then when I see people sit down, I’m like the second guy to sit down. And it looks like I actually understand what’s going on. I understood none of it. That Eduardo Prada was made commendador because he was born… There’s not poverty exactly, but extremely lower middle class.

In those days, and maybe even still today, in Guatemala, the middle class is really, really, really, tiny. And to be at the bottom of the middle class means you got food to eat when other people don’t, but that’s about it. And so I remember the first time that he lost everything. Maybe it was the second time, was sharkskin. And he had… He was selling sharkskin to, I think it was going to Italy, because they would put them in like the front seats of Ferraris and Lamborghinis and stuff like that and make suits out of it and sharkskin.

And so he had these boats and he’s getting all this sharkskin and harvesting all these sharks off the coast of Guatemala. And he had like an 18-wheeler full of these cured sharkskins headed to get on a boat and go to Italy. And, oh, I remember how you hit the other fortune now. But anyway, not only did the bandits ambushed and steal the sharkskins, they stole the truck with it. So he never got the 18-wheeler.

Todd Liles: He lost like three fortunes, right?

Roy Williams: Yeah.

Todd Liles: One was to bandits. I think another one was to literally the government.

Roy Williams: Yeah. What happened is he decided that he was going to build for people in poverty. It was a little cement block house, had a door and it had a couple of windows, and it was like 12 feet by 15 feet or something like that. It’s just a little single room house out of the weather. So this homelessness, now people actually had shelter.

And so he was building these, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And building these big communities and they were selling really, really, really cheap. And he was efficient enough at building these that he made himself a fortune. And I think that’s the one the government goes, yeah, we’ll take it from here and we’ll take all your money, too.

Todd Liles: Wow.

Roy Williams: So you need to start over. And so this was a guy who just kept getting beat down, beat down, beat down, always rose from the ashes with a new idea. And he was like the Chrapko brothers. It’s like, yeah, you can’t keep a good dog down. You know what I mean? You just, it’s like you kick the dog, he’s going to get back up and go back to what he was doing. And that relentless commitment and determination and the optimism to just not whine about it, but just go back to what you were doing.

Todd Liles: He just didn’t give up.

Roy Williams: Yeah, exactly.

Todd Liles: And I love that because through all the studies that I’ve done, it seems to be that most really successful people are going to have a failure or two or three before the thing that really works makes it and it sticks. Lord knows I’ve had at least one really, really good one. And I’m glad I went through it because it was a good learning lesson on the other side.

So since we are talking about origin stories, this is going to be the last question that I have for you. And it’s a very personal question for Roy. How do you know? Is it an emotion? Is it knowledge? How do you know when you’re like, ah, that is the origin story that I will tell from this point forward about this particular brand?

Roy Williams: Okay. I’m going to explain it in a way it’s easier to understand than the actual way that I do it.

Todd Liles: I got you.

Roy Williams: Okay. And so…

Todd Liles: So directionally accurate, not technically correct?

Roy Williams: Right. What I’m saying is I know what I’m doing subconsciously, but I don’t do it as a process. But I know what it is that I’m doing. The process would be you have to understand the myths, the legends and the archetypes. And so some people say, and I subscribe to the fact that there’s actually only four stories. There’s only four stories that have ever been told. And some people say there’s five. Nobody says there’s more than seven.

And so there’s a book, I’ve got all the different books, by the way. And usually the people that say that there’s five, six or seven, they’re just considering a variation on one of the stories as a different story. And so one of the archetypal stories is a stranger comes to town. Now, it doesn’t need to be a town and it doesn’t need to be a stranger. It’s just that a person comes into a situation. See what I mean? And…

Todd Liles: It’s every Hallmark Christmas movie ever.

Roy Williams: Well, it’s also the move, it’s every Clint Eastwood movie ever. A stranger comes to town is somebody shows up in a situation and takes an action that surprises everyone. Whether it’s a good action or a bad action, it’s just an action that surprises everyone. And so it’s captivating.

And then what happens next? You know what I mean? Now, the other thing is, anytime you say what I just said, this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened, it’s a horrible story. This happened. And then you have to follow that with the idea, this happened, therefore…

Todd Liles: Therefore.

Roy Williams: This happened. Or this happened. But this happened. So therefore means, of course, this happened because this triggered it. See what I mean? This happened, therefore. It was this, it triggered this, this the other thing. But something unexpected happened, and it took off in this other way. And so, therefore, and but are the words that you’re looking for unconsciously.

Because if a thing happens and then another thing happens, and then another thing happens, they’re not necessarily connected. And one is never surprised. There’s no surprise there. Whenever you lose surprise, you lose delight. You cannot create delight without an element of surprise. And so the problem with most ads is they’re not delightful. The problem with most businesses is they’re not remarkable.

Todd Liles: You know who follows that therefore and but process. I’ve heard them speak on it.

Roy Williams: Yeah, yeah. It’s the two guys that did South Park.

Todd Liles: Yes, Matt Parker and Trey Stone.

Roy Williams: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just didn’t want to go there because it’s a long story, and I tell – my stories are always too long.

Todd Liles: Yeah, they’re great teachers, though.

Roy Williams: Oh, fantastic. Yeah. No. I’m just quoting those guys. I just didn’t take the opportunity to. Because I take too long. You know that.

Todd Liles: Yeah, it goes back to us being too connected on too many things. All right, let’s watch an origin story ad.

Ad: Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes, the ones who see things differently.

They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.

You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them.

About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them, because they change things.

They push the human race forward.

And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius.

Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.

Todd Liles: Roy, I know you love that ad because you started talking about it before we even showed it. You didn’t know it was coming. So just in your own words, tell us what’s going on there.

Roy Williams: Okay. You remember earlier when I was talking about archetypes?

Todd Liles: Mm-hmm.

Roy Williams: Okay. Each of those iconic figures in history is an archetype. And an archetype, and I don’t mean the technical definition of the word archetype. What I mean, an archetype is an icon, an icon is an archetype. It is a symbol that represents a belief system, a way of seeing the world.

Okay, so you see Pablo Picasso. You see Muhammad Ali. You see Thomas Edison. You see Albert Einstein. You see Martha Graham. And just before you see the guy that did Kermit the Frog, what’s his name?

Todd Liles: Jim Henderson.

Roy Williams: Jim Henson.

Todd Liles: Henson.

Roy Williams: Jim Henson.

Todd Liles: From Mississippi, by the way. Thank you very much.

Roy Williams: Oh, he’s from Mississippi?

Todd Liles: Yeah. He was born there. I don’t think he… He did time there, if you will.

Roy Williams: Okay. 

Todd Liles: He grew up somewhere, though.

Roy Williams: Like you, he left.

Todd Liles: He left. Yeah, he did.

Roy Williams: And so what happens is Jim Henson, right before Jim Henson, you see this woman jump up and kick her heels together, a dancer. That’s Martha Graham. The fact that Steve Jobs was aware of who Martha Graham was and the difference she made tells you everything in the world you need to know about Steve Jobs. And all of the people he chose what he did not say to you is that he was also one of those people.

Todd Liles: That’s right.

Roy Williams: But what happens is by showing you the people that he found inspiring. And if you ever take the time to see what each of those people did, what did Martha Graham do?

Todd Liles: She totally changed modern dance.

Roy Williams: Unbelievably, unbelievably. It’s like so many… As a matter of fact, the golden age of Hollywood. When you see Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, you see Gene Kelly singing in the rain and all this thing. And then Motown and the Jackson 5, all of that. All of that can be traced back to what Martha Graham did in the 1920s. I mean, it’s staggering.

And so the fact that this guy is interested, this Steve Jobs character, this guy who’s creating Apple Computer, and he’s saying, think different. These people thought differently. And because they thought differently, they changed the world. And they brought things to us that are important to us, that matter to us.

And they’re looking at float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Muhammad Ali was influenced by Martha Graham. Her belief system, her way of movement, her way of thinking about movement. And so it is so staggering. You see in the arts, all of the arts, and the sciences, in the sports, and in the arts. That’s what he’s championing. He’s championing pioneering, he’s championing adventure. He’s championing going where nobody’s ever been. Star Trek. Going where no man has gone before.

And so when you start looking at all those people, that’s what they were. They were explorers, they were adventurers, they were exciting people who had the courage of their convictions. And I’m going, “Wow, isn’t that cool to be perceived as somebody who created something new, surprising and different?”

And it is delightful. And everybody else wants it now that they’re aware of it. They’re going, “That’s so cool.” And I’m going, “If your brand doesn’t embody some of that, you don’t have a brand. You have a business, you sad little weasel. Get a personality.” I mean this in a spirit of love. “Get a personality. Have the courage to stand for something, be different.”

And you’re not going to become different by following what everybody else tells you to do. Operationally, you have to, or you do not have consistent performance. You cannot deliver the product consistently. You have to have process and procedure internal to the company. You have to. But you know what you have to have outside the company? A story that nobody’s ever told before.

Todd Liles: Right. Roy, what’s the takeaway from today?

Roy Williams: Think different.

Todd Liles: Thank you very much. If you like what you’re hearing, you can get the show notes in great detail. You can also watch this over at Toddliles.com/wizard

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