Dear Reader,

Most brands are too scared to take a stand.

They water down their message. They try to appeal to everyone.

They chase likes, not loyalty.

But great brands don’t do that.

They’re not built on popularity. They’re built on belief.

They draw a line in the sand and say:
This is who we are. If you’re with us, welcome home.

If you’re not, that’s okay too.

In this episode, Roy and I unpack the real reason some companies earn lifelong fans while others stay forgettable.

We talk about:

  • Why the strongest brands repel before they attract
  • How “Don’t Buy This Jacket” created a movement
  • And what it really takes to build a tribe that lasts

Because when people feel like they belong, they don’t just buy from you.

They believe in you. They fight for you. They bring others with them.

If you’re tired of shouting into the void…

If you’re ready to stop selling and start leading…
This episode is your playbook.

 

 

 

Watch / listen above or read below.

Todd Liles: All right, Roy, so we are into episode number 15, and I want to talk about something a little different in this episode, because so far we have talked about branding and repetition, we’ve talked about emotion. But what we haven’t necessarily dived into is how to get your customer, your client who is listening to your advertising and your campaigns, feeling like they’re actually part of your tribe. So I want to jump into that.

And the information that I found super valuable today was from Secret Formulas, “What I learned at a Bar Mitzvah.” I love that. And I also really like number six, “Elevators Don’t Read Minds”, from The Wizard of Ads, which I thought was really tremendous. So I want to jump into that, if you don’t mind. And we’re going to go right into this concept of feeling welcome.

Specifically, when you were at this bar mitzvah in New York, you got to witness an experience of a family and a community welcoming this young man quite literally into the tribe, into adulthood. And I know that was a powerful experience for you. Can you tell us what that moment was like?

Roy Williams: Well, yeah. Remember, whenever you’re raised in Oklahoma, which has a total of 12 Catholics and like two Jews. Okay? It’s like… And that wasn’t where I lived. It’s somewhere in the state. Remember, Oklahoma is half the size of Dallas. The entire state is half the size of Dallas, Texas. And so it is a very isolated, way more remote than most people realize. And so when you grow up and all of a sudden you’re in New York City and you have made some very dear Jewish friends, and you’re going, “Okay. I’ve never been to any kind of religious service other than my own faith. I have no idea what to expect.”

There’s something about your faith having been around for several thousand years and going through all the persecution and tribulation the Jews have had, literally for millennia, that they’re just the most welcoming, friendly, inclusive people you’ve ever met in your life. And you realize that by the fact that at no moment is there ever anything that makes you feel like you don’t belong here or that you’re in any way not welcomed or not qualified or can’t participate. And it’s kind of like, huh, this is very unusual to me.

And then when I see the rituals, the actual things that they do at a bar mitzvah, and I’m going, this is so intensely community. This is so intensely, “Let’s all have a party.” And nobody approaches and says, oh, where are you from? Or who brought you? None of that. Nothing. No weird curiosity. And then you’re looking at little things that happen, like the… They put Aaron Grosbard. It was the son of Robert and Ronnie Grosbard. They put Aaron on the chair, and he’s probably 40 now. I mean, he was 13 at the time. That’s been 25, 28 years ago.

And so they pick him up and they put him on a chair, and four men got four legs of the chair, and hey, hey, hey. Everybody’s dancing around to the music and everything. And it’s this wild party, and they’re lifting him up and he’s laughing and he’s in the chair, and he doesn’t have anything to hold on to. And then the next day, we go to the synagogue, and he stands up for the first time, reads from the Torah, and then gives a talk about what he read.

I remember what he read. I remember what his talk was, a little short talk like eight minutes. And then when I came into the room, Pennie and I came into the room, we’re there in the synagogue, and we were given these handfuls of hard candy. It looked wrapped in little plastic deals and they said, hey, whenever everybody yells, but it was mazel tov or something, I can’t remember. But everybody yells this, you all throw candy at him. And I’m going, really? He said, yeah, it’s just wishing him sweet things. And I’m going, this is cool as heck.

And so you’re sitting there and everybody’s sitting there with a candy in their hands, and this is in a synagogue. And he’s doing a really wonderful teaching, and he’s telling all this stuff, and I’m sitting here just waiting to throw him a candy and everybody else is too. And then whenever he says a certain thing, then everybody chops this thing, and they all just start whipping candy at him, and he laughs. And I’m just going, these people really know how to have fun. They really know how to celebrate. They really know how to make everybody feel included.

Todd Liles: That’s good.

Roy Williams: And I’m just thinking, huh, we should all be more like this. And so that idea of all of these different moments you’re just watching to where nobody ever questions who you are or why you’re there. And I’m going, no, any place I’ve ever been in church, they would notice the outsider, they would notice the newcomer, and their overt welcoming of you would be creepy. You know what I mean? They’ve targeted you and they zero in on you, man, you’re just not like that.

And I said, wow, businesses should be like this. Businesses should just make it so easy to walk in and be known. And I know of several businesses now that do that. But it is so utterly effortless that it’s hard. It’s hard to do something that relaxed.

Todd Liles: It is interesting ’cause my grandmother was Catholic, and where we lived in Sanford… Sanford is this little village community. They would have service that would only come by once a month, and only a few times did she ask me to go and I went. But because I was in Mississippi, in Sanford, there were three Baptist churches literally within about a mile from each other and there was a little bitty community center that they would hold mass at.

So I wasn’t Catholic. I was basically growing up Baptist. But I can remember from a little guy being excluded from certain Catholic rituals because I wasn’t Catholic. And it always made me feel like maybe I’m even not supposed to be here. And that’s not a good feeling.

Roy Williams: And we’re not really talking about faith right now. We’re talking about businesses.

Todd Liles: We’re talking about business, yeah. So to your point, one of the most welcoming places that I have ever been to was Michael Hyatt’s place. And Hyatt puts on a show. When people walk into his place and you’re a visitor there, your name is on a big board in the lobby, professionally printed. The receptionist comes over and greets you. She knows you that you’re coming, she’s waiting on you, she’s happy that you’re there. She’s offering drinks and food and snacks. And Michael’s so looking forward to seeing you. We’re so happy that you’re here.

And ideally, Michael is walking out right after that greeting. He doesn’t want you waiting. He wants you to know you’re really important, that you’re getting a sign, you’re getting snacks. Welcome. And by the time you’ve had a 30 second nice conversation, here he comes. And it makes you feel out of this world. It’s a great experience. So let’s go to that. They made you feel welcome. You didn’t feel excluded, you felt included.

Roy Williams: They made me feel welcome by not making a big deal out of the fact that I was there. And see, you can make a person feel extremely welcome by making a big deal out of the fact that they’re there. You felt honored.

Todd Liles: Michael went the other way with it.

Roy Williams: Yeah. What I’m saying is you felt honored.

Todd Liles: I did.

Roy Williams: I didn’t feel honored. I didn’t feel ignored. I didn’t feel like anybody was suspicious of me or worried about me or nervous about me or had any thing to sell me.

Todd Liles: You never felt like you weren’t supposed to be there.

Roy Williams: Right.

Todd Liles: And I think that’s the thing.

Roy Williams: That’s the thing.

Todd Liles: That’s the thing. You never felt like you weren’t supposed to be there. So that’s how Michael used it. What are some ways in your messaging that you can get that same emotional feeling out there? Like, hey, you are wanted and you are welcome and you are part of what we are doing.

Roy Williams: Okay. This is going to sound crazy. Just before I got in the truck to come over here, I got a letter from a client in New Orleans, we’ve worked together for over 30 years, and golly, probably 31 or 32 years now, and we were talking about a crazy thing that we’re going to do and it’ll be huge. And one of the team had written up a little card to give people when they get this reward they’re going to get for free. And it’s a really cool thing.

And they were reading it to me yesterday morning. I said, no, it needs to say this. And so Robert said, hey, would you write that down for me. I said, yeah. And so it’s like four sentences. I can find it if you want. But at the very end, I said, you came, you did this thing. This is your reward for doing that. We’re so glad you came in. We love you. And in the context, it was just a casual we love you. And it’s okay to say I love you.

Todd Liles: I know.

Roy Williams: And most people won’t.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: But see, if there is a moment where that statement is justified, because what we’re doing for over 30 years. And so right now in New Orleans, just to make this rituals, absurdity, rituals, inclusiveness. Are you ready? Are you with me? It’s what we’re talking about, right?

Todd Liles: That’s what we’re talking about.

Roy Williams: Okay.

Todd Liles: Bring them into the tribe.

Roy Williams: So what I do is at the end of every ad for Ramsey’s for over 30 years, and he’s been on 52 weeks a year on most of the radio stations in New Orleans for over 30 years. And I will end the ad by saying, Ramsey’s Diamond Jewelers on Veterans between Bonneville and West End in Metairie. And so what happens is I could probably live in New Orleans and never have to pay for a meal. I just have to say, Ramsey’s. And they go, ah, you’re the Ramsey’s guy. It’s a really bad imitation of Tony the Tiger. That’s all it is.

And so what happens is we’re having this thing. We made 15,000 pendants in sterling silver, and it’s a perfect shape of Louisiana and a little tiny diamond, tiny, tiny diamond right where New Orleans is. Normally these things would sell for like 80 bucks or 90 or maybe even 100. So we’re telling people, if you come into Ramsey’s any time of the day, and you just come in and find somebody and say, do your very best imitation of Ramsey’s Diamond Jewelers, the largest diamond store in Louisiana, which it is. Then you get this pendant, it’s called Louisiana is a state of mind. And so Louisiana is a state of mind. The Louisiana pendant, it’s just state pride. Right?

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: You get it for free. We just give you one. Everybody. Everybody that comes in and does that, we got 15,000 of these. And so I said, so when they get their pendant, you give them a little card. And I say, hey, you came in, you did this, you crushed it. And then guess what? Everybody gets it. Everybody gets it. You just come in and say that, we’re going to videotape all these. There’s going to be a screen in the store. And you just sit there and watch all these people do it at after. And everybody’s cracking each other up.

And now here’s where it really gets fun. Okay? We’re gonna choose whoever really did the most memorable job of it, and we’re gonna use that for a month at the end of the ads instead of using me. Now, wait a minute. This is a Jewish bar mitzvah. We’re just making a party out of just this stupid thing that has become this. And so everybody knows that voice. They’ve never known who it was, and they still don’t know who it is. But everybody’s going to go in and do it ’cause it’s funny. And they’re going to come in and laugh and they’re going to leave the store.

That’s how these people became the largest diamond store in Louisiana. And so I just said, no, we got to change it to say this and just change a few of the verbs. And then I said and at the end we say, we love you. And it’s appropriate in that moment, so we love you. Thanks for coming in. We love you. And now these people have a jeweler. Does that make sense to you?

Todd Liles: I love it. So it leads exactly into the point I wanted to talk to you about, which is tribes need to also have very clear signals. You created a signal with Ramsey’s, and then you included people. And then you not only had a signal, you created a physical symbolism of it. We recently went to Louisiana Tech over Easter holiday. I went there to go visit with one of my old teachers, and we took the kids. I said, “Hey, guys, you want to go?” They did.

Well, I’ve not been on that campus in 20 years. They’ve completely rebuilt it top to bottom. It’s absolutely beautiful. So my daughter’s walking around with my wife and I, and then we go into the store, and she wants a Louisiana Tech shirt, so we get her a Louisiana Tech shirt. And then she wants Louisiana Tech jewelry. So we’re getting all the Louisiana Tech things for Willa. She’s 14 years old, and before we’re done, she wants to go see where the dance team is dancing ’cause she’s dead set. She’s going to dance for Texas or LSU or Ohio State.

Well, it didn’t take very long in that trip for her to start saying things like, I wonder what it’d be like to go to school here. And now she’s wearing the Louisiana Tech shirt and she brings it up.

Roy Williams: Yep.

Todd Liles: Like I thought I wanted to go to Texas, but I’ll get lost at Texas. There’s 54,000 kids. Louisiana Tech has 11 or 12. I’ll be able to be a human and be known there. So she’s already… ‘Cause mom and dad went there, and we’re giving her signals. She’s imagining herself as part of the Louisiana Tech family, which I think is actually pretty great. So, brands have tribes, and they form unmistakably clear ideas and beliefs about who they are, who’s part of the tribe, what they’re not. And you and I were talking about preparing for the show, how this sort of ties in to Volkswagen. We looked at your ad earlier, so talk about that a little bit.

Roy Williams: So, a couple episodes ago, you brought up the Volkswagen ad. There’s a little tiny Volkswagen beetle, and it says, think small.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: And another one says lemon. And there’s a guy named Bill Bernbach. And the only thing I ever knew that Bill Bernbach said that I just absolutely agree with and just like, I just think it’s the most extraordinary thing is, “I’ve got a great gimmick. Let’s tell the truth.” And so it’s like, I’ve got a great gimmick, let’s tell the truth. Well, I was doing a deep dive on that to find when did he first say that and in what circumstances was it? ‘Cause I was going to write this thing about it. And the more I dug, I finally found the moment, and it was hard to find. He never said it.

Todd Liles: Oh, it wasn’t his…

Roy Williams: No, it is his quote.

Todd Liles: It was just attributed to him by somebody.

Roy Williams: Well, he was the guy that popularized it, but he never claimed it as his own.

Todd Liles: Gotcha.

Roy Williams: He was an ad writer at Gray’s Advertising starting in 1949. Now, they had a client called Ohrbach’s, O-H-R-B-A-C-H-S. And Ohrbach’s was a department store. And they had him in New York, LA, some other major cities. And he was very, very unhappy. Nathan Ohrbach was very unhappy with the ads he was getting from Gray’s Advertising. So one day he goes in and he says to Bill Bernbach, who’s just an ad writer there, and he goes, “Bill, you’re the only guy here with a brain. You’re the only guy in here who actually knows what he’s doing.” He goes, “Why don’t you just go start your own advertising firm?”

Now, remember, Bill Bernbach was the guy that started DDB, which is Doyle Dane Bernbach. And DDB became one of the largest advertising agencies in the history of the world and it became world something. or rather gobbled up all the big ones you know like Ogilvy and DDB and all these world things. It’s this big conglomerate a number of years ago. The point is, Bill Bernbach’s one of the greats of the greats of the greats.

I never knew how great he was until recently ’cause when I found out it was Nathan Ohrbach that said that, and Bill said, I don’t have any money to start an advertising firm, he goes, dude, what if I just pay you like a year in advance of all your fees? If I just pay you for all the work you’re going to do for like a year, and he’s a big, big advertiser. He goes, would that be enough for you to start your own company? He goes, yeah, that’d be enough.

And so then he sits down with Nathan. They’re going to rebrand Ohrbach’s. And they sit down and he goes, okay, Nathan, let’s talk about what makes you guys special. I’m looking for an angle. I’m looking for a gimmick. And he goes, and Nathan Ohrbach says, I’ve got a great gimmick, let’s tell the truth. And so Bill goes, that’s a great idea. And here’s what was born in that moment. Exactly what we’re talking about right now. Exactly. Because Bill Bernbach and I didn’t know this.

This was 1958 when he… The year that I was born is the year that Bill Bernbach sat down with Nathan Ohrbach. And Ohrbach said, I got a great gimmick, let’s tell the truth. And so he extracted, like with a needle and a syringe, he extracted the personality out of that company, and then he made that personality known. And so the gimmick was, let’s just let people know who and what and how we actually are, warts and all. Let’s just really be us, and either people are attracted to it or not. And so Bill Bernbach goes, yeah, that’s completely revolutionary, because brands did not have personalities in those days.

Now, here’s where it gets interesting. Are you ready?

Todd Liles: Yeah, I’m ready.

Roy Williams: Volkswagen Beetle. This is like, remember 1958? This is less than a dozen years after the end of World War II. Here’s this German car that’s going to be imported into the US and they said. They came over and they said, we got to find out who’s writing the Ohrbachs ads. The reason that Bill Bernbach got the Volkswagen account and created that legendary ad campaign and gave Volkswagen this wildly attractive personality is because they tracked him down and said, “Hey, we’re from Germany. Who writes the Ohrbach’s ads ’cause Ohrbach’s are the coolest ads in America.”

And there was this guy Bernbach. Wait a minute. The guy who actually convinced him to do that was Nathan Ohrbach. And I’m just sitting here going, this is so cool. And so I studied, literally this whole past last week, I’ve been studying all the other cool stuff Bill Bernbach did. And I’m going, oh, my gosh. Everything I believe and everything I teach, he was doing it first. And after doing this for 40 years, he’s been doing it since the year I was born. And he already figured out everything I figured out before I was born. And I never knew that until just now. It blows me away.

Todd Liles: It’s awesome. Doesn’t blow me away at all. And I’ll tell you why. I think that there may be a study of this from a science standpoint, but I’m not sure of it. I’m absolutely convinced that if all of our knowledge was wiped away and we were completely devoid of things that we knew, someone in time is going to figure out all of Newton’s laws, it’s going to be renamed after someone else. It’s just going to happen. We will end up learning what quantum physics is. And just like all of these ideas that have come to your mind that I truly believe they were Roy’s ideas, but I also truly believe because they’re foundational and truthful to principles, they’re going to be someone else’s ideas, too, at some point.

Roy Williams: Absolutely. The theory of universal knowledge. And see, actually, it was Isaac Newton who said, “If I have seen further than other men, it’s because I have stood on the shoulders of giants.” And so I never knew that I was influenced and educated in an unconscious way by all of the great campaigns that had personality, most of which of the old ones were written by Bill Bernbach. So I didn’t know he did the Volkswagen campaign. I didn’t know he did the Ohrbachs. I didn’t know anything about the campaigns he ever did. I just knew one statement he ever made which was, I’ve got a great gimmick, let’s tell the truth.

And so Isaac Newton was referring to Kepler and a bunch of other guys that came before him that were, they studied the planets and planetary movement, astronomers. And he was saying, “No, these guys who came before me did all this great work and I had that kind of available to me.” And he made some big leaps, but he couldn’t have done it if they hadn’t been there first. So I was influenced by all the work of all the really great people of two generations ago without ever realizing it.

So, yeah, it’s easy to figure it out if you just realize I’m really attracted by this ad. Why do I love this ad? And you think about it and you try to reverse engineer what it is and you basically discover your heroes before you know their names.

Todd Liles: Right. So going to the Volkswagen ’cause I want to tie this concept of telling the truth and also being a tribe. If you go back and check out the earlier episode, there’s big headlines, it’s a lemon. And then it goes on to talk about essentially the things that a lot of folks might have considered to be bad things ’cause it’s the small compact car in a world of massive gas guzzling vehicles.

But it then goes on to tell you why it’s really not a lemon, it’s just people. It looks like a lemon, it isn’t a literal lemon. So I think the thing here for them is they said, you know what, we’re just going to tell the truth. We’re going to go really deep into who we are and believe that there are enough people that when they hear this message goes, yeah, I identify with that. I don’t need to have the Crown Vic that is the size a boat. Yeah, I’d like this little car. There’s good reasons to have lower gas mileage and a car that’s going to last forever without breakdowns.

But if I’m an air conditioning company or a plumbing company or electrical company, this mindset is probably very difficult for them to wrap their brain around. And one of the first things that comes to mind is Morris Jenkins. We’re open till midnight. Not 24 hours. No, we’ll be open till midnight. We’ll take care of you anytime between now and midnight. But after midnight, we’re sleeping.

Roy Williams: Well, you know, now till midnight at no extra charge.

Todd Liles: At no extra charge.

Roy Williams: Yeah.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: So, yeah, no, we do, we set aside, we have boundaries. Boundaries are not walls. Walls separate people, boundaries just let people know this is as far as it goes, and it doesn’t go further than this.

Todd Liles: Nice.

Roy Williams: And so the thing that frightens most people, okay, the thing that frightens the average business owner is, well, who has ever done this and it worked? And, oh, I don’t want to take that chance. We would alienate all of the left handed, short people. And it’s like, anytime you tell anybody an idea, the first thing they want to do is figure out what could possibly make that go wrong.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: And so one of the things I learned this week, I found a bunch of things Bernbach said I never knew about. He said, if you stand for something, you will always find some people for you and some people against you. If you stand for nothing, you will find nobody against you and nobody for you. And so you cannot bore people into buying your product. And anytime you say something persuasive, anytime you say something that has the power to move people, it will move some percentage of people in the opposite direction. Instead of moving them towards you, it’ll move them away from you.

And this is a principle I call choose who to lose. Because there is no message, there is no brand, there is no offer that everybody is going to react positively to. The more powerful the attraction, the more powerful the repulsion. Choose who to lose. Do you want to be known and have some people alienated from you or are you willing to settle for being invisible and utterly ignored and nobody dislikes you, but they don’t like you either?

Todd Liles: I love it. And that leads us right into our ad segment. And our ad segment aligns perfectly with all the things that you just said, choose who to lose. So it is an ad from Patagonia. It’s one that they put in the New York Times and other places, and it really just set them apart. And for the listener, it says, don’t buy this jacket. And then in Volkswagen style, it goes on to essentially unpack all the reasons why you wouldn’t buy it but in those reasons why you wouldn’t, it builds the tribe, you know who you are.

So the fine print’s kind of small there. We don’t have to read all that. But, Roy, to me, this fits perfectly in that sort of concept of we’re going to tell the truth, we’re going to follow this Volkswagen principle, this Bernbach principle. And I just want to see from your perspective, what are your thoughts on that particular campaign?

Roy Williams: Okay, so I’m unfamiliar with it, but I can tell you why it works. Keep in mind, every ad that is remarkable has a very specific angle of approach. Now, before we turned on the microphones, we were talking about a sphere, this perfect sphere, and you were telling me about why that was fascinating, and I agreed with you. It is fascinating. Now, don’t just think of a circle, and you’ve got 360 different degrees from which you can approach that circle. Think of a sphere. Now you have an infinite number of angles of approach toward that sphere. Up, down, sideways, different angles, top, bottom, all around.

An ad is like that. And anytime you have an illustration, so whether it’s television or direct mail or online or in a magazine, this is a magazine ad. Anytime you have an illustration, the only purpose of the illustration is to get people to read the headline. That’s it. The only purpose of the headline is to get people to read the first line of body copy. And then the first line of body copy has a purpose. Can you guess it?

Todd Liles: To get them to read the second line?

Roy Williams: Bingo.

Todd Liles: All right. I got it right.

Roy Williams: If you leave out the parts that people skip, then you will have what’s called engagement, and they will read it all the way through. Now, this has what I call, nobody else calls it this and most people seem confused when I say it, but I just can’t help myself. It has what I call the hovering question mark. Now, remember, anybody else selling rugged outerwear, you know what they’re going to do?

They’re going to show you an attractive person in a glorious environment in nature, and they’re going to be a person to admire, and they’re going to be wearing these clothes, and you wish, I wish I looked like that person. I wish I had adventures like that. Everybody’s going to do that. They’re going to sell the scene and identification with an attractive spokesperson. Yeah, Patagonia didn’t do that. Infinite white field background. There’s nothing but white. And there’s a jacket and there was no one in the jacket.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: Okay. That’s remarkable by itself. And it’s black and white. And then it says, this jacket’s nothing special looking about it. Don’t buy this jacket. There’s a great big hovering mark over that. Why not?

Todd Liles: Exactly.

Roy Williams: It’s kind of like… So wait a minute. You’re obviously trying to sell this jacket. I’m not sure what’s happening here and so just simple curiosity will make you read the first line of body copy. And so if the first line of body copy is rewarding, if it’s good, if it goes, oh, and then you read the second one and pretty soon, before you’re at the end of it, before you realize that you’re at the end of the ad, you’re going, I think this may be the jacket for me.

Todd Liles: Right. You know it’s interesting. Before Patagonia introduced himself and the people that created this, they were avid outdoors people. They were also very focused on nature preservation and basically living like this wonderful human life existence. So they created it. Now, you’re an educated person, so you probably have read about Patagonia. Most people don’t realize that Patagonia is a region, it’s a mountainous region in South America. They know the name of the jacket. They even in their logo, they’ve got the little outline of the mountains, but they still don’t get that. It’s like, oh, this is a real place.

But a lot of their advertisements have been like that. Essentially don’t buy our product if dot, dot, dot, you don’t align with our tribe. And then their copy just goes on to describe what the tribe is. It’s people that are concerned about the environment. These jackets are really expensive, but they’re also going to last forever. They’re going to use reusable materials. So lots and lots of things there.

Well, Roy, I really love the story of the bar mitzvah in your writing. It was one of my favorites that I had read and that’s why I wanted to make this episode about what does it mean to be invited into the tribe? And I really think that you did a good job with that. What’s the one takeaway that you’d want the listener to take from today’s show?

Roy Williams: Be who you are and figure out what about that, what is the nature of your tribe and who might feel included in it naturally and feel like, oh, I have found my people. I have found my people, I have found where I belong, I have found my brand. Okay. They can’t do that without information. And anything that is inclusionary doesn’t include everyone. Other people will go, eh, that’s not me. And it’s like, okay, you don’t hate these people, but at the same time, you’re just not attracted to it.

But whenever you speak to something specific enough people will go, wow, that’s just like me. Well, then they are powerfully attracted to you. And remember, did you know in most business categories, if you have 20% of the market potential in your market, you’re the monster king. You can lose four out of five. If you get one out of five, you’re the monster king of your category in your trade area, no matter what you sell.

Todd Liles: Excellent point, excellent point. Thank you Roy. We really appreciate you today.

Narrator: You’ve been listening to Tickle Me Todd Liles and the Wizard of Ads, where the bold win and the remarkable rain. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to like, subscribe and follow so you never miss a conversation. If you want a copy of the show notes or watch the ads from today’s show, head over to toddliles.com/wizard. This episode is dedicated to the business owners who refuse to be ordinary.

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