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In this episode of Connect and Convert, the “Three Musketeers” — Leah Bumphrey, Paul Boomer, and Dennis Collins — dive into the raw, unspoken “confessions” of business founders and owners. With over a century of combined experience, they explore the real stories and problems that keep small businesses from scaling.

The team tackles a major confession: “I am the best salesperson in my company, and that scares me”.

Learn why “hero-based leadership” might be the very thing holding your business back and how to transition from being the “Superman” of your office to a true educator for your staff.

Key Discussion Points

  • The Control Trap: When sales dip, many owners react with a need for control rather than a change in strategy.
  • The Cost of “Jumping In”: Stepping in to fix sales problems provides temporary relief but carries a permanent cost to your ability to scale.
  • Hero-Based Leadership: Recognizing the moment your business outgrows your individual ability to “save the day”.
  • Removing the Training Wheels: Why modern leadership means teaching your team how to balance on their own rather than letting them depend on you.
  • Stewardship Anxiety: Understanding the internal pressure founders feel when growth outpaces structure.

The Full Discussion.

Dennis Collins: It’s Leah Bumphrey and Paul Boomer and Dennis Collins, the three musketeers.

Leah Bumphrey: Here we go again.

Dennis Collins: Back together. Yeah, here we go again. This time we have a new meaning to Connect and Convert. We’re gonna connect you to the thoughts that business founders and business owners have, but they don’t say it out loud. But that honesty that we’ve heard, we have maybe what, together, 100 years combined of helping small business. I have most of them.

Paul Boomer: Well, I was gonna say you’re over 100. You’re over 100, so you cover that.

Leah Bumphrey: There it is.

Dennis Collins: Well, we’ll go with a hundred. But we’ve heard all these, we’re gonna call ’em confessions. You know, like when you go to church and have to make a confession. Well, these business owners had to confess to us or we wouldn’t work with them. Okay, so we got some pretty juicy confessions.

Leah Bumphrey: You’re saying down and dirty. We’re getting down to the dirty here.

Dennis Collins: We’re gonna take a risk here, Leah. I know you’re a risk taker. And we’re gonna take a risk. We’re gonna reveal some of the things that people have told us over the years. These are real stories. These aren’t made up. These aren’t fake. They’re real problems. And here’s the kicker. If these things aren’t named, they can’t be solved. Okay? So we’re gonna help small business owners, business founders, name those problems. And we’re not gonna suggest we can solve every problem for you. But you know what? We’re gonna give you some insights here from a century.

Leah Bumphrey: It always starts with talking. If you can talk about stuff and if you don’t feel alone, ’cause we’ve talked about this, gents, most business owners end up in that moment, whether they’re looking at payroll, whether they’re looking at what’s going on for the coming year, whether they’re looking at marketing, and they feel like they’re all by themselves. They’re all by themselves with all these people relying on them.

Dennis Collins: Yeah. All by themselves.

Leah Bumphrey: So in this conversation, if we can help people feel that they’re shored up, that other people have experienced this.

Dennis Collins: That is so true, Leah. It feels better, even though you still have the problem, to know that other people have it, too. And I got news for you. The confession I’m about to reveal to you here, I’ve heard it more times than I can count on my hands and toes. It’s a biggie. If you’re a founder or a business owner… And sometimes our owners are not founders. We understand. That’s why we use both terms. You can be an owner or founder. This is for you.

And you’ve ever thought to yourself, “You know what? I’m capable. I’m smart. I should have figured this blank out long before this, but I didn’t.” Welcome to Connect and Convert. We’ve spent decades listening to these things. We’ve spent decades solving these on video calls, in person. They’re real fears, they’re real problems, they’re real confessions. So let’s get right into it. Let’s start with confession number one. You guys ready for confession one?

Leah Bumphrey: Absolutely.

Paul Boomer: Bring it on. Here we go.

Leah Bumphrey: Absolution coming down the pipes. Let’s go.

Dennis Collins: Absolution. Here we go. Sometimes as a business owner goes, “I feel that I am the best salesperson in the company. And you know what? That scares the hell out of me. I don’t know. I spend more time fixing sales problems, chasing sales issues. When sales are soft, I step in. Sometimes I just can’t help myself. I stay close to the people who are struggling, but I really never have a hard conversation with them. As we got larger… You know, when we were kind of small, that worked out okay. But as we got larger, I can’t do it all, and I really don’t want to leave my people. I’d feel awful not helping out my people. I’d feel like I was letting people down by not stepping in to help them with their sales problems.”

Okay, let’s… What do you think, guys?

Leah Bumphrey: Sounds like somebody needs a hug.

Dennis Collins: Oh, yeah, let’s give them an electronic hug. Come on. There. Now we did the hug, but that can’t be real, can it, guys?

Paul Boomer: Well, so there’s a moment most owners don’t want to admit to anyone, and that is when sales and… When sales dip and your first instinct isn’t about strategy. It’s control.

Dennis Collins: Ah, okay.

Paul Boomer: That’s what I’ve heard so many times is, “Well, we need better strategy.” Well, no, what they’re asking for right then and there is actually control.

Dennis Collins: Control.

Paul Boomer: And they don’t want to necessarily admit that to anybody, including themselves.

Dennis Collins: But what about this idea that they’re the best salesperson in their business? Paul, if you were a small business owner… You are a small business owner, but let’s say you had a team, a staff, and you thought you were the best salesperson in the business. Is that a good thing? I mean, I can see an owner, a founder, needs to be able to sell their business. It’s their business. But what if you think you’re the best salesperson in your business?

Paul Boomer: There is a challenge with that when it comes to your own clarity as a business owner. You have pride and you have love for the thing that you do.

Dennis Collins: Absolutely.

Paul Boomer: What you’ve created. And you should have that pride. You should have that love. And it’s so easy to reverse it and go, “Yes, but I have to jump in. I have to do this thing. I have to be the best, and I can’t leave this up to other people.”

Dennis Collins: Yeah.

Leah Bumphrey: That you’ve just bought yourself a job.

Paul Boomer: Yes.

Leah Bumphrey: Right. I mean, the other thing is, Dennis, you use the term “think,” “think I’m the best.” Okay, I think I’m the best at a whole bunch of stuff that I actually know I’m not, but I think I am.

Paul Boomer: Oh, yeah.

Leah Bumphrey: But if you think you’re the best…

Dennis Collins: That’s interesting.

Leah Bumphrey: And that is the reality, then you better freaking change that. Then your hiring practices are garbage. Because are you hiring to maintain your role? Are you afraid to let somebody get bigger? How are you training them? You shouldn’t want to be the best. If you are, then, man, you’ve bought yourself a job for the rest of your life.

Paul Boomer: And that means…

Dennis Collins: Let me turn that around.

Paul Boomer: Hold on. When they jump in like that, when they jump in as “I’m the best” or “I feel like I’m the best,” that’s a temporary relief, but the cost is forever.

Dennis Collins: Oh, oh, oh, oh. Let’s talk about that. Okay? Let’s try to frame it in language that business owners understand. What’s that, Leah, what’s that costing them when they jump in? Or is it just a natural thing they should do, or is it costing?

Leah Bumphrey: No, no. It is costing them because instead of working on their business, they are continuing to work in their business. It could be because of a fear of letting go, could be because they can’t hire good people. But I think of… I’m gonna use the example of someone in HVAC. When they’re a “Chuck in a truck,” they’re one guy in the truck, their wife is answering the phone for them, and they can go, and when they come to my house, man, I feel great that I’m dealing with the owner, that I know there’s accountability, and that feels fantastic. And they feel fantastic because they know what it is that they’re doing.

As soon as you hire someone else that is operating under your name, if you can’t trust that they’re doing that, if you have to follow up on everything, again, it comes down to you’ve bought yourself a different job working for yourself.

Dennis Collins: And I hear, again, founders and owners say, “I want to scale my business.” In fact, oftentimes, that’s why the three of us get hired, right? We get hired to help somebody scale a business. They’ve already got a good business, they don’t have a great business. And then we jump in there and we find out this is happening. They touch everything. Today we’re talking about sales, but it could be all things. I mean, that is a habit. That is an attitude, a mindset. Mindsets, in my opinion, are kind of hard to bust. Have you guys ever encountered owners like this in your consulting?

Leah Bumphrey: It’s not only owners. It could be the sales manager that’s working for you. If the sales manager is the closer for the team… Dennis, you have tons of experience. If your salesperson must bring you into every call to be the closer, well, then you may as well just be on the phone calling everybody, making the deal, getting her done, have less overhead, less headaches. That is the worst possible situation if you’re trying to scale your business because the buck stops with you or with your sales manager. You’ve gotta train people. You’ve gotta be able to…

Dennis Collins: I can’t let go. I can’t let go.

Paul Boomer: And the common rationalization… Sorry guys. I’m dealing with this cold thing and I’m just like…

Dennis Collins: Rationalization. There you go.

Leah Bumphrey: You were smoking cigars last night, Paul, I can tell.

Paul Boomer: I wish. I wish. But anyway, the dangerous one is, “I’m protecting the culture,” and they confused proximity with leadership.

Dennis Collins: Say that again. That sounds really important.

Paul Boomer: One of the rationalizations that I hear a lot of people say is that, “Well, I’m just protecting the culture.” But what they don’t understand is that they are confusing proximity to leadership.

Dennis Collins: Give us an example.

Paul Boomer: They believe that the closer they are, they’re being a leader.

Dennis Collins: So in other words, that high touch mentality, they have to rip the shirt open and the big S, the Superman S is in there, that is actually hurting the culture, not helping the culture.

Paul Boomer: Yes, exactly. They think it’s helping because they’re close to it.

Dennis Collins: But let’s touch on a very difficult subject.

Leah Bumphrey: Okay, I’m gonna look… This is my somber look.

Dennis Collins: Okay, be somber.

Leah Bumphrey: I look somber. Okay.

Dennis Collins: We know that many owners and founders are driver style social styles and have egos as big as…

Leah Bumphrey: No.

Dennis Collins: I know it’s shocking, Leah, but it happens. So how does a person step back from that habit pattern, that ego pattern? We can sit here all day and tell you why it’s bad. “Oh, this is horrible. You should not be doing this.” But that’s not the problem. They still feel that they should. What have you done, guys, in your practices that have helped these very strong-willed, type A, driver types step back a little bit? We laugh because it’s tough.

Leah Bumphrey: But if you can help them really define what it is they want, because we all get something. The three of us get something out of being able to pontificate and say, “Oh, we know this and we’ve talked about this.” There’s a payback. When you’re talking to an owner, when you’re talking to a client, when you’re talking to your people, it’s important that they define to you what they want. And it’s no different for the owner or the founder of a business. What is it that you want and then decide to do that? If you want to be irreplaceable. Well, we’ve seen that. Second-generation businesses…

Dennis Collins: Irreplaceable. Yep.

Leah Bumphrey: Third-generation businesses where all of a sudden the patriarch, the matriarch is gone, and now the second-generation owner, they can’t do anything because it was Mom, it was Dad that was…

Dennis Collins: Boy, Leah, that’s a great point. How many times… I’m thinking now of a half dozen that I’ve worked with over my career that the father or mom passed away or retired and the son or the daughter stepped in. Boom. Because of exactly this problem. The founder, the dad, the mom, the parent was touching everything, particularly sales.

Leah Bumphrey: They made themselves irreplaceable.

Dennis Collins: Yeah. Gosh, this is a real conundrum. Isn’t it?

Leah Bumphrey: Well, and do you want that? Do you want that as a business owner?

Dennis Collins: I don’t know, do you?

Leah Bumphrey: Well, some might, in which case they want to have a job where they’re in charge and they’re not answering to anyone. And there’s nothing wrong with that. Okay.

Paul Boomer: And this isn’t ego, but what it is, it shows up as stewardship anxiety.

Leah Bumphrey: Oh, wow. I like that.

Dennis Collins: It comes up on all this… He’s gonna have to explain that one.

Paul Boomer: So founders don’t do this because they want control. They think they don’t want control. They want control, but they don’t… But it goes back and forth. But they do because they feel responsible for everything that happens next. And this shows up most especially when growth outpaces structure.

Dennis Collins: Everything that happens next. Okay, I got it. Okay.

Paul Boomer: So you’re growing so fast that you don’t have the structure. And they think that this choice is, do I step in or do I let them fail? But that’s the thing. It’s not an either-or choice.

Dennis Collins: But I’ve had that. I can totally identify with that. When I would hire new, young salespeople and I loved to help salespeople become the best they could be, but I had a problem… True confession. I had a problem of stepping back and letting them fall flat on their damn face because they’re gonna lose business. They might lose an account because they did something really stupid and we might not be able to recover it. So my tendency was to step in and say, “Let me help you. Let me fix this.”

Leah Bumphrey: Okay, but there’s nothing wrong with helping. Oh my goodness, I would be out of a life if I couldn’t help. That’s part of my identity.

Dennis Collins: No, but should I do that?

Leah Bumphrey: Yes, you should, but you have to help them get to a point they don’t need your help. Just… It’s no different than parenting, hiring someone, someone on a team, coaching, all of these things where there’s someone in authority. The old saying, “If you can’t do, then you teach.” Well, you shouldn’t be doing it. You should be teaching it.

Dennis Collins: Right. Okay. Good point.

Paul Boomer: So the question I have for you, Dennis, is did you or do you have structure around empathy? Because you’ve gotta have empathy, of course. But if you don’t have structure, then it just… It turns into betrayal almost to everyone because there’s no feeling of camaraderie and there’s confusion.

Dennis Collins: So you talk about some boundaries, some lines, red lines. And the answer is…

Paul Boomer: Yes. And by the way, I just want to say that I love this topic. And if any of you who are listening or watching this want something that you can download and actually apply to your own business, please go to connectandconvertpodcast.com and you’ll see in the show notes a link or form. Fill it out and we’ll email something to you immediately.

Dennis Collins: Yes, and you will love it.

Leah Bumphrey: See, we get the fun part. We get to say, “Oh, look at what we see. We’ve seen this. Here it is.” This is the fun part, the identifying it. The hard part… It’s like seeing the dessert. “Oh, that looks gorgeous.” Eating it is fantastic. How do you make it? That’s our specialty.

Dennis Collins: But I think our role here is not just to talk about it, but to kind of normalize it in a way and saying that you’re not alone here, guys. This is a… When I was a young buck manager, Paul, to answer your question, I did not have boundaries. It was unconditional. So Jamie is falling down and, oh, my God, I can’t let him do that. He’s messing this up. And I would inject myself without conditions, without boundaries, and then I created… I enabled him to continue to come to me and that was not good. And I had to get off of that. I had to stop that.

Leah Bumphrey: If you can’t empower the people. Yeah, and that’s the thing, to help. And they have to know you’re there to help. But again, back to what we’re talking about, the owner, the founder who says, “I’m the best salesperson,” he’s created that. She has made that her reality. And if I am a smart salesperson, oh, why should I close? You know what? I have this great prospect, I can’t close. Dennis, come with me. Can you help me do this? Because I know you’re gonna be able to pull out of your magic box of tricks a better rate or…

Dennis Collins: A discount.

Leah Bumphrey: Or a discount or a freebie or something, right?

Dennis Collins: Yeah.

Leah Bumphrey: I’m pretty smart, actually. You hired a smart person ’cause I don’t want to work that hard. I’m going home. You’re the one gonna be worrying about it.

Dennis Collins: I never thought I hired stupid people, though. I just did not let them shine. I stood… Not stood back, I stood up when I should have stepped back. But Paul makes the good point. Boomer has the point. We have got to allow them to learn how to do it on their own. Step back.

When my kids were… I remember they were learning to ride bicycles. Maybe you all had the same experience. And their first experience on a two-wheel bicycle is traumatic. They don’t know how to balance. So you put those wheels on it. The training wheels. And they learn with that. And then a few months later, you say, “Okay, we’re taking the wheels off.” And of course they crash and they drive the bike into the lawn or something and you let them fail. Sit down a little bit.

Leah Bumphrey: But Dennis, did you know that you can no longer buy training wheels? They no longer sell training wheels.

Dennis Collins: Come on.

Leah Bumphrey: No, it’s impossible.

Dennis Collins: Tell me.

Leah Bumphrey: Yes, because they have realized that training wheels make you rely on something false. You never achieve balance. So now, you know what they have? And these things are fantastic.

Dennis Collins: I don’t know.

Leah Bumphrey: They are two-wheel bikes that the kids can balance on. No training wheels. No pedals either. No pedals either. But you can just…

Dennis Collins: No pedals? So they just learn how to balance.

Leah Bumphrey: They learn how to balance. And yeah, mom and dad are behind you. Actually, I have neighbors and they’re two little girls. One was the same age as my youngest, who’s now 22. I taught Kelsey how to ride her two-wheeler bike. And because I was not afraid to let her fall, ’cause I’m Auntie Leah, her little sister would not learn from the mom. It almost killed Cheralee to come and say, “You know what? She won’t let me.” I took her out and had her riding her bike in five minutes. You know why? Because I knew she could. I’m not worried. I’m not worried. Did I want her to get hurt? No. But I came upon it… I was not the founder. The mom was.

Dennis Collins: But if she did have an accident or imbalance or something, you’re not going to be there to, “Oh, I’m going to hold you up.”

Leah Bumphrey: I was there and she was driving and it…

Dennis Collins: So wait a minute. What I’m hearing here, guys, this is important. Take off the damn training wheels. Is that what I’m hearing?

Leah Bumphrey: Don’t even put them on. Never put them on.

Paul Boomer: Yeah. So it’s just the shift happens when you stop asking, “How do I help?” and actually start asking, “What am I teaching the staff to depend on?”

Dennis Collins: Mm-hmm.

Paul Boomer: That’s the shift.

Dennis Collins: Yeah. And again…

Paul Boomer: What am I teaching them to depend on.

Dennis Collins: The stuff we’re talking about, the confession part that we were talking about today, basically says that you’re enabling people. You’re teaching them to act in a certain way. Don’t be surprised when they act the way you taught them to act. Is that what I’m hearing?

Leah Bumphrey: Absolutely.

Paul Boomer: Exactly.

Dennis Collins: Don’t be shocked.

Leah Bumphrey: This is proper communication. This is what you do, not, “Oh, can we do this for you? Oh, let us do this for you.” And as an owner, as a founder, you gotta decide, not just wish. Not just sitting there at your desk like this, “Oh, I wish I didn’t have to do this. I wish I…” Decide you’re not. And tell people. Tell the people working for you.

Dennis Collins: Tell them. Interesting. I think this also has another component to it. And we’re doing a series here on sales, so we’re going to do more on the topic of sales confessions that owners and founders have told us. And one of those has to do with training. So if you’re going to step back, that also presupposes that they are trained and know what to do, doesn’t it? And that’s a whole ‘nother topic we’ll be discussing.

Paul Boomer: That’s a whole other thing. So when you start noticing when you ask these questions about, “How am I helping?” or, “What am I teaching?”

Dennis Collins: “What am I teaching?”

Paul Boomer: You actually start noticing that there’s less emergencies. It’s not necessarily better sales, but you start noticing that there’s fewer emergencies going on.

Dennis Collins: So help me see, how does that work in practice? Give us an example of how one of our listeners or viewers could use that today.

Paul Boomer: So I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking there, Dennis, because what will happen when you start backing off and start saying, “Okay, what am I teaching my employees to depend on me for?”

Dennis Collins: Right.

Paul Boomer: When you start realizing that and when you start teaching them, “Okay, I’m not to be depended on,” what you’ll notice isn’t that the sales start going up. That’s actually one of the last things that will go up. What you’ll notice is that things kind of get boring almost, and things settle down, and there’s fewer emergencies, and the team stops waiting to be rescued. Then the sales start going up.

Dennis Collins: I get it. Yeah. So you’re saying to do some reflection on what messages, what teachings are you leaving them with? And then don’t be surprised if it’s the wrong message, you’re going to get the wrong behavior.

Paul Boomer: Exactly. Because they realized they weren’t failing their people by stepping back, but what they are finally doing is they’re finally trusting them.

Leah Bumphrey: And what you do with that, how you do it, is more important than what you say, right?

Dennis Collins: No doubt.

Leah Bumphrey: You have to be willing to be very clear.

Dennis Collins: Yep.

Leah Bumphrey: And then the hardest part is have a big whiteboard with what your clarity is. And that’s what you’re saying. Because otherwise, if you do it enough times and you jump back in and you jump back in, they’re never going to learn. They will never swim.

Paul Boomer: So, Dennis, tell me.

Dennis Collins: So, Paul. Yes. True confession. This is about confessions.

Paul Boomer: Yes. What are you hearing from this whole conversation?

Dennis Collins: Well, the strongest message that’s come across to me is we teach people, particularly salespeople, how we will treat them. It’s us. We are responsible for training them and teaching them how we will treat them.

And if we treat them as, “Hey, you’re not that smart, you’re not that good,” or “Maybe you’re good, but you don’t know how to do this or that,” and you step in, you put the damn training wheels on. And we just discovered in today’s world, we don’t use training wheels. So why am I using training wheels? Why did I use training wheels back in the day? Well, that’s what I knew. But that’s why we’re talking about these confessions. That’s what we know and that’s what we do. But if you expect your business to scale and grow, what I’m hearing is you’re not gonna do it by being Superman.

Leah Bumphrey: When an owner or a founder gets to the point of recognizing this, they are on the cusp of the biggest opportunity they’ve had since they pulled the trigger and started their own business.

Dennis Collins: Wow.

Leah Bumphrey: They are right there on the edge. This is a moment of truth.

Dennis Collins: Moment of truth.

Leah Bumphrey: But you can stay where you are because, man, that comforter is nice and cozy. ‘Cause I know what I can sell.

Paul Boomer: Yeah.

Dennis Collins: Leah, can I just… I’m sorry, Paul, but I want Leah to say again what she just said. That is a very important takeaway from our conversation. Say that again.

Leah Bumphrey: When an owner or a founder recognizes that they’re the best, they are the best in their organization, you are on the cusp of an opportunity to actually, truly scale. It’s a greater opportunity even than when you started your business. You can change your life and you can change the lives of the people who are working for you. And isn’t that why we want to be really good at what we do?

Dennis Collins: I think so. I mean, I always, as a leader-manager, my first concern was, how’s this gonna play with the people? Even though I am a dyed-in-the-wool driver, my amiable came out and said, “I want my people to get benefit from this.” I don’t want to have… Later, as I matured as a manager, I said, “I don’t want to be Superman anymore.” Yeah, I want to be Superman in a different way. I want to enable them, not have them being enabled by me stepping in. Does that make sense?

Leah Bumphrey: Paul, I see you…

Paul Boomer: Absolutely.

Leah Bumphrey: Probably being in a position to see more potential owners get to this moment of truth.

Paul Boomer: I’ll put it this way. What I’m hearing in this confession isn’t about sales at all. What it is, it’s about a moment a founder realizes the business has outgrown hero-based leadership.

Leah Bumphrey: Yes.

Dennis Collins: Hero-based leadership. Paul, why do you get all these good phrases? Where do you… That’s… You’re the phrase man.

Leah Bumphrey: I think we need a little TM over on top of each of them. They’re excellent.

Dennis Collins: How do you call that again? Say it again. Hero…

Paul Boomer: Hero-based leadership.

Dennis Collins: And that’s what we’ve been talking about, right?

Paul Boomer: That’s what we’ve been talking about this whole entire time. And where I get ’em, it’s from a lot of reading, a lot of conversations, a lot of deep conversations.

Dennis Collins: Wow. Well, that kind of really puts a cap on it, doesn’t it?

Paul Boomer: And that’s why we offer the download.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, we do. And it’s called the Sales Trust Playbook. The Sales Trust Playbook. And it is designed specifically for business founders and business owners. It’s not for a salesperson. It might not even be for a sales manager. Ah, could be. But if you’re a founder, an owner, and you say, “I need some clarity about this whole sales thing,” it’s a seven-step playbook that you can put into action almost immediately. And Paul, remind them again how they can get that.

Paul Boomer: Go to connectandconvertpodcast.com and in the show notes for every single episode that we’ve had, all currently 86, keep growing, you’ll find a link in the show notes to do just that.

Leah Bumphrey: Excellent.

Dennis Collins: Excellent, excellent, excellent. This has been a good discussion, guys. I thank you. I think we… I hope we helped someone out there who is not saying this out loud.

Leah Bumphrey: I can smell it. I know we did.

Dennis Collins: And if you want, here’s another thing. This podcast is about you, okay? It’s not about us. We’re just the facilitators. We want to hear your true confessions, and you don’t even have to sign your damn name. Just send it to us. What’s your confession? What’s that thing that keeps you up at night? What’s that thing that keeps coming back and saying, “Oh, man, I should be better at this, but I’m not”? And it’s hurting me and my business, and it’s making you do things you shouldn’t be doing, and it’s causing you to not be the best you can be. We want to hear from you. Paul, how can they ask their questions? What’s the best way to do it?

Paul Boomer: Connectandconvert@wizardofads.com, I think it is.

Leah Bumphrey: Yep, that’s us.

Dennis Collins: Okay. Connectandconvert@wizardofads.com. Okay. So, hey, this is about honest conversations for founders and owners so you can make better decisions. Connect and Convert signing off for this episode. Stay tuned. We’re coming back with more.

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