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Jessica, Dan and Ben took on the responsibility of the family business and are driving it into the future. Three more generations please.

Stephen Semple:
Hey, it’s Stephen Semple here with the Empire Builders Podcast, and we’re giving Dave Young the day off. And in replacement of Dave, I’ve got three really fun people that I know you’re going to love hearing their story, three folks from LeNoble Lumber. And I’m going to let them introduce themselves and tell us a little bit about each one of them because we’ve got me plus three people. So this is a little bit different, but I know everyone’s going to find this an awesome story. So because we’re all really super polite people, it’s ladies first, which means Jessica, you’re up first.

Jessica LeNoble:
I’m Jessica LeNoble. I am the last one to join the business of the three. I’ve been here for almost a year now. Dan, who you’ll meet in a minute, is my older brother. And it’s just great to be here.

Stephen Semple:
All right, awesome. Thanks, Jessica. Well, Dan, you’ve been teed up here now. She teed you up.

Dan LeNoble:
Hi. So I’m Dan LeNoble. I’m vice president of LeNoble Lumber. As said before, Jessica is my younger sister. Ben is also my partner over here. I’ve been full-time with the company for over 15 years now. And just excited to be here as well.

Stephen Semple:
All right, awesome. And Ben.

Ben Bernstein:
Yep.

Stephen Semple:
Now, I know this is a podcast. We can’t see that Ben’s wearing his very special, bright, lime green, fluorescent tuxedo because he’s calling in today from the shop. So Ben, let us know a little bit about you.

Ben Bernstein:
Yeah, my name is Ben Bernstein. I am co-vice president with Dan. I have been with the company since 2013. All of us are just very happy to be here, excited to be on the podcast.

Stephen Semple:
And here’s the thing that I think is really special before we get into things is you guys are kind of in a pretty special place when it comes to businesses in America and the world. The business was established in, if I remember correctly, I think it was 1965.

Dan LeNoble:
Correct.

Stephen Semple:
By Paul, right? And you guys are generation number three, really, to be coming through the business. Isn’t that correct?

Jessica LeNoble:
Yep.

Dan LeNoble:
Yeah, to this company, we’re the third generation, but the three of us, in terms of the lumber industry, we go back even further than that. I know for a fact Jess and myself we’re at least fifth generation in the lumber and I believe Ben is also further along as well. So we’re third generation to this business, but we kind of joke that we don’t have blood, we have sawdust in our veins.

Stephen Semple:
But I don’t think a lot of people realize the success rate of a business still being successful and in the hands of the third generation is really rare. There is actually not many businesses that have managed to do that. It’s amazing how often either the business has rolled up or it’s been sold to somebody else or has been merged with something and has kind of disappeared. But for this to be around and still prosperous and happening in generation three is really, really special. And you guys should pat yourself on the back on that, that you’ve been able to do all of those transitions.

Ben Bernstein:
Well, I think the credit for that really goes to the generations before us that have seen the vision of seeing that, okay, we are in this spot towards the second half of our careers and how do we set up the success of this company for the next generation? A lot of our competitors in the industry, they have not had the setup that we have had with the previous generations really having the foresight to look and prepare us as next-generation owners. Getting us intricately involved in the company as a whole and us being able to learn from them has really been what’s been able to have us drive to that next level.

Stephen Semple:
So even before we step back and go into the history of the company, can you tell me a little bit more about what did that look like? How did the involvement happen in terms of what do you think are the key factors that made it successful? So in other words, if somebody’s looking to do that transition themselves, what are some of the things that they should consider?

Ben Bernstein:
Right. I think starting from the ground level within the company to really understand what it takes to run each job at the company. For many, many summers, Dan and myself and Jessica, we used to work various different jobs in the yard. And so starting in that yard position, understanding what those guys are going through. And then when we came on full time, we start at a counter job in the office and you learn the ins and outs of what it takes to run that position. And stacking the responsibilities on top of each other, as well as involving the next generation in larger scale planning so that they can start to understand, okay, these are the reasons why we do things, I think that was really what set us up to be successful in the position that we’re in.

And also the generation, they’re still here right now. We are intricately involved in the company, but my father still works at the company. We have another partner, Matt Dienstag, who is still at the company, although he is retiring at the end of the year. Dan’s father, Peter, he retired maybe two years ago, and so he instilled all the principles into Dan before he left and really taught him most of what he knows today.

Stephen Semple:
That’s a really interesting thing in terms of having all sorts of positions inside the business. I have a client of mine, Tapper’s Jewelry, and they’re in the second generation. And Mark, who now runs the company, has often talked about how his first job was sweeping the floors in the jewelry store and serving customers coffee. Right?

Dan LeNoble:
Yeah.

Stephen Semple:
That was his job. Can you get Mrs. Smith a cup of coffee, please?

Dan LeNoble:
Yeah.

Stephen Semple:
Right? But also understanding the importance of that, right?

Dan LeNoble:
I think it goes unnoticed by some other companies just how important it is to have actually done every job, and when you’re asking someone to do something, you know what it actually entails to do that job and be able to work with them and say, “I’ve actually been in your shoes before. I’ve done this work.” And I think that’s hugely important and kind of endears you to your employees as well.

Stephen Semple:
That’s awesome.

Jessica LeNoble:
When I first got here, I was really nervous to do anything because I was on the customer end before, I was one of their customers. And then I came in and all of a sudden, I had to do all these things that I had never done before, and I went to my brother and I said, “Dan, can you do this or can I ask someone to do this? Who normally does this?” And he is like, “Well, you do now. You can’t ask anyone to do anything that you can’t do.” And that really set me up for how I view everything in this job.

Stephen Semple:
That’s interesting. But here’s the other interesting perspective that you bring. For a while, you were the customer. But that’s even interesting being the customer for a little while and now being part of the business. Even that’s good, bringing that perspective of what are customers really looking for. That’s awesome.

Jessica LeNoble:
Definitely.

Stephen Semple:
Yeah. So what’s your role today, Jessica?

Jessica LeNoble:
I’m a little bit of customer service. I’m a little bit of learning what these guys are doing. But for the most part, I’m on the ground floor with the sales reps and taking orders.

Stephen Semple:
All right, that’s awesome.

Ben Bernstein:
Jessica’s also been… I think we are involving Jessica as much as we can, knowing what a huge part of this company she is and will continue to grow into that larger role that Dan and I have developed over the years. It’s always, we are involving her more and more so that she’s understanding. It’s not just us telling her something. It’s really involving someone, it makes them understand everything that you’re trying to do a lot easier than just trying to tell someone something or show them something. When you involve them in the decisions, it allows them to understand. And that curve that Dan and I had to go through, hopefully it’ll be shortened for her if we can involve her more from the beginning.

Jessica LeNoble:
Fingers crossed.

Stephen Semple:
That’s awesome. Who wants to take the responsibility of talking about the early days? What is it that led Paul to starting this business and how did the business all start way back in 1965?

Dan LeNoble:
So I think I’ve been dubbed the historian of this group, so I’ll take that on.

Stephen Semple:
All right, over to you, Dan.

Dan LeNoble:
The short version of the history is Paul used to work for his grandfather and his uncle at another lumber yard. And after his grandfather’s passing and his uncle taking it over, they just weren’t seeing eye to eye and things became very contentious between them. And Paul said, “You know what? I’ve been running this business essentially by myself and I’m going to go out on my own and I’m going to start LeNoble.”

And the company that he once worked for disappeared and he flourished. He started as one man, a desk, and a station wagon, and did everything himself, whether it was taking the order, loading the truck, driving it, the paperwork. Everything associated with, he had his hands involved in every aspect because he was a one-man show. And he took those kind of ideals and that hard work and started growing the company slowly and slowly from there and finding people of like mind that just wanted to put in an honest day’s work and do everything to try to improve the company.

So he had been in it for quite some time, knew all the ins and outs, but saw a lack of management and top-end skill and said, “I can do this better. I’m going to take this on myself,” and started from there.

Stephen Semple:
Cool. Now, one of the things I noticed looking at your guys’ history was when it started, it started in Hell’s Kitchen, which I think in 1965 New York was not a great neighborhood.

Dan LeNoble:
Yeah. Far from it.

Stephen Semple:
I think maybe the name gives that away a little bit.

Dan LeNoble:
Just a little bit.

Jessica LeNoble:
It was interesting.

Dan LeNoble:
I mean, even dating back into the ’90s, I remember our old place used to be spread out on 52nd Street amongst one building here and a building up the block and a garage here. And I’d be in work with my dad and he’d be in the office and goes, “Well, go up the block and help them pull this. But don’t go up there by yourself.”

He’d look at me standing at the door, watching me, and call someone, “Hey, make sure he makes it there,” and it’s a 200-yard walk. It was not a great neighborhood, but the area’s now completely changed. It’s actually really magnificent area, what they’ve transformed it into. But that kind of gave us our grit and grind at the same time. It wasn’t a great place to be. It gave you that drive to want to do better. So everything that we’ve been through in the past to get here kind of shaped who we are today on some level.

Stephen Semple:
So what do you think in the early days led to the success? And then I’m going to be asking you a little bit about the motion picture business. Before that, what do you think is the key that really made Paul successful? And I think there was also… I guess it was quite a bit later that Peter came into the business, but beyond the determination, is there something that you can look at and say, wow, this is the thing that really set you guys apart from the competition?

Dan LeNoble:
So there’s a few ways I can touch on that. You touched on… I think his determination was one of his big factors and just frankly being a fairly decent person to be around. He always treated the person who was out there in the sun on a hundred degree day, loading that truck, covered in sweat, the same as the CEO of any other company. He just treated people well and expected what he’d expect to have himself, honest day’s work, and he’d get down there with them.

But there’s other things also, I would say. Just making smart moves amongst the people that he aligned himself with. So for instance, in the early ’90s is when Ben’s family’s business merged with LeNoble and we fell into the LeNoble name. And bringing in Ben’s father, Mark, into the fold definitely transformed who we were. It gave us a completely different revenue stream and the customers they serviced, different attitudes towards things, that willingness to listen to certain things, and just explore those options and see where we could go with those. I think those were some of his keys. And I think what he did was laid out just a great foundation. And everything starts from your foundation. You can’t build a successful business on rubble.

Ben Bernstein:
Right. Yeah. I’ll add to Dan’s point about that in regards to Paul. I think his number one attribute was his leadership, his lead by example mentality. He was not afraid to get his hands dirty at all. People could work for Paul for 20 years and they’d say, “I’ve never seen Paul sit at a desk,” to the point that I think in 52nd Street, he actually didn’t have a chair or he didn’t have a desk. I don’t know what the story was. He didn’t have a chair or he didn’t have a desk. He never sat. The guy was moving, involved in everything, and he led by example. And so when the top of your organization is leading by example, it shows everyone what the goal is and people follow that lead. It goes from there.

Jessica LeNoble:
And he still does, by the way.

Stephen Semple:
That’s awesome.

Jessica LeNoble:
He comes in once a week and does his rounds in the yard and the dispatch office. The man is 92 years old and it still feels like a family business where our grandfather comes in and greets everyone, knows everyone by name. He really did a number when it comes to loyalty. He’s loyal to his people and they’re loyal to him.

Stephen Semple:
That’s awesome.

Ben Bernstein:
People that have never worked for Paul, Paul had already been retired, they see him walking around. They have immense respect for him, never having technically worked under him. They understand where he comes from and they understand the mentality he brings and that his name was on the door first. And they respect that and they bring that mentality to their work.

Stephen Semple:
Especially today where we take a look at in the space of trades and construction work and whatnot, it’s harder and harder and harder to find people and retain people that, look, this is really important, that type of field, that type of culture, because what I’m going to guess is that what you’re telling me is there’s probably pretty high retention amongst your people.

Ben Bernstein:
Absolutely. We say we have hundreds of years of experience in this company and it’s a hundred percent true. We get people in this organization, they develop close relationships with their coworkers, and it facilitates a great work environment. And for that reason, we’re able to retain people for a long time and they just grow to be basically family members here to us.

Stephen Semple:
Well, and I think especially where you guys are also now doing some interesting work in some places that require a higher skill set, what I found interesting was in the ’70s, getting into doing some movies. I love the fact you’re in The Producers and the Godfather. Pretty cool projects. So how’d you guys end up becoming a supplier to the New York Motion Picture and television and I guess probably now Broadway industry?

Dan LeNoble:
So that dates back to originally when my grandfather was working for his uncle and grandfather, they dealt with those clients and he understood their needs. They are some of the best customers to have, and simultaneously the most demanding customers, but not in a bad way. In the sense that to produce a TV show, they have seven to 10 days to shoot each episode. That’s from building the set to scenicing the set, actually putting the actors on it, and shooting the whole thing. Seven to 10 days is not a lot of time. So when you get those drawings to build a set, you need material yesterday.

Stephen Semple:
Yeah.

Dan LeNoble:
And the way they run their budget sometimes doesn’t allow them to just have material lying around. So he’d get a call 7:00 in the morning, “Hey, we have to build this townhouse. I need a thousand sheets of plywood this afternoon or tomorrow morning.” And the only question that we would have is, “Well, do you have a forklift there or you need us to bring one for you?”

Stephen Semple:
Right. But there’s an interesting thing, even recognizing that that question needs to be asked. Right? It would be easy to go, “Okay, I’ll show up with the lumber.” And then, surprise, there’s not a forklift. But yeah, those are tight timelines. Those are difficult things. It was interesting. I was listening recently to a Freakonomics podcast on the economics of Broadway plays. And holy smokes, it’s $30 million to produce a Broadway play today. I was like… I was flabbergasted on what they spend on sets. Like, holy crap.

Dan LeNoble:
It’s astounding what they pour into it and what they will do in a span of weeks. I mean, they will take an empty show of a stage and build everything from the Met Museum, to a townhouse, to tenements, and everywhere in between. Actually, Jess, you could probably speak a little bit more about this because you were on these sets, this was your former career.

Jessica LeNoble:
Yeah, I dressed movies and TV sets for 10 years before I decided to come to the family business.

Stephen Semple:
Oh, wow. Okay. So what am I talking about? You’re the expert in all of this stuff.

Jessica LeNoble:
Well, my job was to come in after all the sets were built, but I watched it happen. I was responsible for once these guys deliver the lumber, they set it up into a set. I came in and I basically decorated it. And one thing that’s interesting is when you hear LeNoble Lumber, you think, “Okay, wood.” But it’s not just wood. We go so beyond that, that we provide almost everything to create the set aside from the furniture. If you want a faux brick wall, we have the faux brick for that. Even though it’s not considered lumber, we provide that. And there’s a bunch of other things here, and we’re continuing to grow our product lines and figure out what the needs are to really make it that you can one-stop shop at our place.

Stephen Semple:
So your goal is that… Because the other thing I noticed is you do things like museums and department stores, and do you also still do residential or is it all in the commercial side of the business?

Jessica LeNoble:
So super interesting, and I think Ben can speak to this because the movie industry has had a tough time the past few years. We’ve expanded quite a bit. And Ben, do you want to go into that?

Ben Bernstein:
Yeah. When I started 11 years ago, and I’ll even go further back to before I came on board, the movie and TV industry made up roughly 30 to almost 50 or 60%, ranging by year, of our revenue. And what we quickly realized is it’s dangerous to have all of your eggs in one basket. As amazing as the movie and TV industry is in this area, and it’s growing every year and the benefits of that, we needed to diversify ourselves.

So my father, Mark, he went out and started try to find other industries for us to diversify ourselves into. For example, we weren’t doing much with high-end architectural panels; the walnut, the teak, the white oak panels that you would see in office buildings and in department stores. We didn’t really do any of that work. And we decided to hire some people with various histories in that industry and grow that business to a huge part of what we do today is high-end architectural panels. We’re probably one of the top distributors in New York City for that material.

And then a few years ago, we decided, aside from the fabrication companies and the carpenters and the various customer bases that we sell, we also were not really high in the new construction business. So we went out and made a big investment into new boom trucks, more space, and we started to diversify into new residential construction in New York City, which we previously had dabbled in, but just in a controlled way. And now we’ve really opened ourselves up to be a real player in that industry.

So we’re trying to pepper ourselves all over New York in various ways to have our hand a little bit in everything. And for that reason, we’re just trying to bring the customer added value.

Stephen Semple:
Yeah. And there’s got to be some really interesting, unique challenges to delivering your products and whatnot in Manhattan.

Dan LeNoble:
Yeah, Manhattan, it’s just tough dealing with the congestion, the amount of people and everything like that. It is not an easy place to do it. If it was easy, everyone would do it. But what we’ve spent a lot of time and resources doing are hiring the right people to do the job. And Ben does a lot of our hiring as well as a few other key people in our organization and finding people that want to do it the right way, don’t want to cut corners, don’t want to, I’m going to park the truck on the corner here and they can come find me. Getting good drivers, good yard guys, that’s the world of difference. It’s simple to say no, but how do we get to yes.

Stephen Semple:
That’s interesting.

Dan LeNoble:
And getting those key people has really been, I think that’s what transforms us. I think our people are our single greatest asset that we have. Everyone around us it makes our life that much easier because of their skill and professionalism.

Jessica LeNoble:
Our dispatch team is incredible when it comes to navigating what truck goes where if there was a mistake, how to fix it. And there’s never… I shouldn’t say never, but there’s not a blame game. If I go downstairs and I’m like, “Hey, this happened.” The first thing out of the dispatcher’s mouth is, “All right, what do we have to do to fix it? How do we get this done so that way they’re happy?”

Stephen Semple:
Well, in this dispatch thing, I just want to give some background that people may not realize is in the construction space, in the home services space, I have lots of clients who are in the suburbs of a city, whether it’s Philadelphia or Toronto or Vancouver or Los Angeles, who will say, “Yeah, we do not go into the downtown core because it’s a pain in the neck. It’s too hard. It’s too difficult. There’s all these challenges.”

I think both Jessica and Dan, you guys hit the nail in the head. What you’re recognizing is one of your competitive advantages is dispatch. And also people getting that parking around the corner and they’ll find us ain’t good enough. You’ve got, yes, the city’s challenging and you just have to overcome that challenge.

Jessica LeNoble:
We’ve never been outside of the city, so this is what we know.

Stephen Semple:
Right.

Dan LeNoble:
I think also one of the things that is giving them the tools to use, and what I mean the tools in this case is just some of the logistics with trucks. It’s easier to just have these massive tractor trailers that you can load up with however many stops and it just goes on its run. But when you’re dealing with these narrow city streets and you have to make these sometimes, not huge deliveries, having a smaller truck that’s nimble and can actually maneuver gives you a little advantage.

So for a company our size, we’re operating 42 vehicles that range anywhere from little box trucks up to those big trailers and everything in between. So if you need two units of plywood into the city and you’re on a difficult street, we have an 18-foot flatbed that makes it much easier to maneuver than a 53-foot tractor trailer. And what Jess was talking about with the dispatch team is they understand those needs. They have the tools to do the job. We’re just there to support them, give them the tools they need to make the job easier.

Stephen Semple:
You’re like right in Manhattan, are you not?

Ben Bernstein:
We’re one mile outside of New York City in Long Island City, Queens.

Stephen Semple:
Oh, you’re in Long Island City, okay.

Ben Bernstein:
Yeah.

Stephen Semple:
But the fact that your history is New York City, and you guys really understand that, the fact that New York City is big, lots of opportunity, but all of these massive challenges that come with it that you guys know, right, from a DNA level because that’s the history of this business, how much do you think that that is your competitive advantage?

Dan LeNoble:
It’s definitely a huge advantage. Having just grown up in it. It’s what’s ingrained in us.

Stephen Semple:
Right.

Dan LeNoble:
And those challenges with the difficulty of just the logistics of New York City, we understand that well, how can we take those particular set of skills and bring that into other markets where no one else is kind of doing those things? What you were touching on with some of your other customers is we don’t go into the city, it’s too hard. They have a particular way they run their trucks and do everything, we do as well but it’s different.

And we like to think that our service allows us to go into these other industries that haven’t been as accustomed to the high quality service that we provide, and that gives us that competitive advantage as well. So it’s taking that DNA of being in the city, being in that rough grind, and how can we take that and go into other sectors where people actually want that kind of service but aren’t accustomed to it from who’s currently servicing those markets.

Stephen Semple:
Right. So when you’re looking at other sectors, so going back to what Ben was saying, where there was a point where you knew you needed to diversify. Part of that diversification question wasn’t just like, oh, I need other services, but what are other services where this stuff that we figured out around the logistics and dispatch and size of truck and getting around and whatnot, what are other ones where that’s a competitive advantage that we can bring is probably kind of how you looked at it? Is that what I’m hearing?

Dan LeNoble:
Kind of. Yeah.

Ben Bernstein:
Yeah. Just to touch on that, I think that even though we’re in Long Island City because of how we are set up operationally, we deliver all the way up to Connecticut, Upstate New York, Eastern PA, Southern Jersey, and all the way out to the Hamptons every single day. And I would argue that we can do that at a more efficient clip sometimes than some of our competitors who are even closer because we’ve set ourselves up, we know what it takes to make these difficult deliveries around the city, and we take that same mindset and we’re able to efficiently get material even farther out, outside of our range.

Jessica LeNoble:
And I think there’s also that mentality of we just have to do it. It’s not, “Oh, this is a hard street to get down. Oh, we don’t want to go into the city. Our customer needs this and we’re going to get it to them.” Because one thing about us is, going back to my grandfather when it comes to one of his biggest actresses was loyalty, a customer calls and it’s not just a voice on the other line. A customer still calls Ben, still calls Dan, even though they’re running the business and we answer and we know them by first name. We know what they need. We know that if they say a certain item that they didn’t really mean that item. Oh, did you mean this? Oh, absolutely. So we want to get our people, not just customers, they’re our people, what they want. So even though logistics does play a role, we just got to get it done.

Stephen Semple:
Awesome. So looking to the future, there’s definitely changes happening in the construction industry, changes happening in the future. What do you guys think is your biggest opportunity and your biggest challenge? You’re now the third generation, taking this out to generation number four, what do you guys see as being the big opportunities and big challenges for LeNoble?

Ben Bernstein:
Our biggest opportunity and our biggest challenge is scaling from where we’re at. I think that the way everything we’ve talked about with how we run our people, how the operations department runs, we’ve put a lot of time thought and effort into how the organization is structured, that we think that we’re ready to take that next step into scaling into other areas outside of the five boroughs and all the other areas I mentioned that I think is our biggest challenge going forwards as well as finding talent, finding that next generation to the next nucleus at this company to help bring ourselves to the next level. That’s going to be our biggest challenge going forwards.

Stephen Semple:
So you see the big challenge as being really the people and the talent? The opportunities are out there, if you have the right people and the right talent, you can seize those opportunities is what you’re seeing?

Ben Bernstein:
Yeah. I think that we are a great organization that offers a younger generation, that have been pulled into different industries away from the construction and blue collar industry. I think that it’s left a void here where there’s some real opportunity for those who are in this industry in our generation to really seize that and take this company to the next level.

Stephen Semple:
There’s no question there’s massive opportunities in the trades business. What I find amazing is how many of my customers who’ve got trades businesses that ultimately have realized that to grow, they’ve built their own plumbing school or electrical school or school for fixing heating and air conditioning units, because that’s the only way they can find people. They find somebody who’s talented and say, okay, I’m going to train you on how to do this trade. Because I think the educational system is letting people down on that front, unfortunately. It’s also that opportunity. There is a great opportunity for people on that, and when you find them, you can grow them and groom them.

So Dan, what do you see as being the big opportunity and the biggest challenge facing LeNoble going forward?

Dan LeNoble:
I mean, I’ll kind of say exactly what Ben said where fortunately we seem to be very much on the same page for things, which is nice. But yeah, it’s finding that talent and talent doesn’t necessarily mean that they come with a world of knowledge in this business. Yeah, it’s nice, but finding the right person I think is even more important.

We can teach the products. We can teach how we do things. But finding someone who in their core has those qualities that you want in your organization, those are few and far between. We’ve been fortunate that we have found some great people like that. Some people that have come in that wouldn’t know a two by four from a sheet of plywood and have now grown so much within the company that they are just integral parts of who we are. It’s our greatest asset and the hardest thing to find sometimes, finding those people.

Stephen Semple:
It’s almost like what I’m hearing you say is your best people are the people where it’s like, “Damn it, yes, the road’s blocked. Yes, this is going on, but this delivery is happening. I’m not giving up. I’m not calling in and going, ‘Oh, I can’t figure this out.’ This is happening. I’m going to figure this out. I’m just that determined.”

Ben Bernstein:
Yeah.

Dan LeNoble:
Yep.

Stephen Semple:
That strikes me as what you’re looking for.

Ben Bernstein:
The people that treat this place like their name is on the door, those are the people that we want in this organization. We’ve been really fortunate to have people who have been with us for a long time. I’ll give an example of our VP of operations. His name is Sal. He’s been at the company for over 35 years. Started as a salesperson, has worn many different hats here, and he’s now the VP of our ops. And he’s in here every morning like it’s Sal Montoro Lumber Company. It makes no difference to him. He comes with the same passion every single day. He’s done it for 35 years. We’re looking for those types of people. And those are the people that when you get those people, you have to hang on to them and you have to have them grow the company.

Stephen Semple:
And the other thing I want to stress we haven’t talked about, but I know this to be true from the way you guys conduct yourselves, is that care and that determination and whatnot on a delivery because we’ve talked a lot about delivery. But let’s face it, that is also even a greater challenge when you’re delivering this highly milled specialized lumber because a dent doesn’t cut it, right? So it’s not just getting it to the site, it’s getting it to the site and getting it in, in this pristine condition. Because if I’m paying this premium price for this white oak paneling that has been beautifully milled, it’s a bit of a diva that you’re delivering. It’s got to be delivered beautifully and in the right manner at the right time. This is not a rough and tumble product that you’re throwing around here.

Ben Bernstein:
So even just to give another example… By the way, the word I was looking for before that I couldn’t think of was the fine art packing and creating industry that we service.

Stephen Semple:
There you go.

Ben Bernstein:
Great example of what we were talking about is we could be selling dimensional lumber to a fine art packer and to most industries, dimensional lumber, two by fours, one buys, if it has scuff marks on it or if it’s got a footprint on, it’s fine because they’re using it for construction purposes.

Stephen Semple:
Well, they’re using it for framing and it’s going to be hidden anyway.

Ben Bernstein:
Right. But with certain industries like this fine art packing that you might be putting a million dollar piece of artwork in this crate, and so that crate needs to be as pristine as the art.

Stephen Semple:
That’s really interesting.

Ben Bernstein:
We’ll send material to a customer who’s putting exorbitantly expensive artwork in these crates, and if the crate’s dirty, it’s scuffed, if anything is off, we’re getting that material right back. So the training, even our loaders have to be right on point that they know that this is the expectation for what we’re servicing.

Stephen Semple:
Because one could argue who cares if there’s a scuff mark on it, except if you’re putting a $5 million painting in there, presentation matters.

Ben Bernstein:
Exactly.

Stephen Semple:
That’s super interesting.

Dan LeNoble:
The crate has to be as nice as the artwork, as silly as it may sound, that’s the exact thing you were saying.

Stephen Semple:
Yeah. No, I get it. I get it. That’s super interesting. So Jessica, you had started, so we’re having you now anchor this whole thing. What do you see as being the biggest opportunity and the biggest challenge for LeNoble going forward?

Jessica LeNoble:
So for me, coming in and not having been here that long, but living this every day, I think that I agree with the scaling, but for the challenge for us is we pride ourselves on being this family business where we know everybody’s name, we care about everyone’s story. And as we continue to scale, it’s going to be interesting to see how we navigate growing and still being able to make it feel like a family company, while also becoming more corporate and having multiple locations and multiple managers.

I mean, if you come into this place, our offices, it is one big office. Dan and Ben do not have their own office. I can yell up to them just as easily as they can see me. That’s the way that this business runs, is everyone works together. And I think that the challenge for us is to not lose that while we continue to scale and grow. And I think that just being third generation and seeing how our fathers did it and how my grandfather did it, that that’s the baseline that we want to stick with while also becoming more successful.

Stephen Semple:
Yeah. It’s an interesting part that you bring up, Jessica, because there is a limit to how many people you can know the name of and actually feel this connection to. And different psychologists, sociologists have said, here’s the number limit, we can argue what it is, but there is a limit. And how do you manage and maintain that culture, as you said, when all of a sudden you’re 3 locations and you’re 500 people. But it’s that conscious thought to this is the challenge that helps people make sure that they maintain some of that core identity. So that’s a great observation on your part.

It will be a challenge for you guys, that will be one of the challenges for you guys moving forward. And it’s the challenge of any businesses face. We wrap it in the word culture, but culture is kind of identity and core belief. And I always like to say culture is the thing that the employees do when the boss isn’t around. It’s this ingrained thing. And it can be, as a business grows, it can be a hard thing to defend.

Jessica LeNoble:
Yeah, I mean, as of now, the owners also do a lot of the managing. They see everything going on. And so it’ll be interesting to see who we hire, the type of people we hire, like the guys were saying before, when we can’t be at the other location. We do have two other warehouses. We have started that transition and that’s great, but we’re not done. We’re ready to keep going.

Stephen Semple:
That’s awesome. Ben, your perspective, if somebody was wanting to work with LeNoble and you’re speaking to a prospective customer about the benefits of LeNoble Lumber, what would you say to them? What’s the big benefit from your perspective?

Ben Bernstein:
We treat our customers like a partnership, meaning growing your business grows our business. So our goal is to make your job as easy as possible and to add value to your company. We have the products you’re looking for, and we have reliable service to get you them when you need them. If we don’t have products you’re looking for, we’re always willing to source and warehouse the product for you. And in that way, I think our biggest differentiator is we almost act as an extension of your team. And so at the end of the day, that’s how we bring value to our customers, and we really believe that your success is our success.

Stephen Semple:
Well, I think that’s a really interesting thing that you bring up is this whole idea of even if it’s a product you don’t have, so if there’s these 10 things I want to get, and there’s this one that you presently have, you’ll still go out and source that and warehouse that for me so that you can be my one-stop shop. That’s interesting.

Ben Bernstein:
Always. Yeah. We have the connections with vendors all across the world. If it’s a product that you need on a regular basis, we have the space in an indoor facility to warehouse that for you and get it to you the next day like all your other products.

Stephen Semple:
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah, I can certainly see how that would be a real key differentiator. Thanks for sharing that. How many people are you guys up to now? How many employees are you now?

Ben Bernstein:
We have 130 employees.

Stephen Semple:
So Jessica, yeah, you’re at that interesting point where it’s a large serious business. It’s going to be interesting to watch how you guys evolve and change over the years. Again, hats off to being in the third generation. And what I’m going to say that I’m hearing is you’re carrying forward a lot of the DNA that you inherited. So I am fully convinced that we’re going to be hearing great things about LeNoble in the future.

Dan LeNoble:
Thank you for that. We wake up every day and just try to just do a little bit better than the day before and take those principles that you just talked about and bring them with us in everything that we do. It’s definitely a challenge. But we have the people around us, we’ve had the teaching behind us, and we’re ready to take that next step forward as well.

Ben Bernstein:
Yeah.

Stephen Semple:
All right. Awesome.

Ben Bernstein:
Hopefully, we’ll be on the podcast in a few years and we’ll talk again.

Stephen Semple:
Let’s do that. Let’s do that and do the update on how you’ve doubled the business in your more locations and you’re 300 people. Absolutely. Let’s do that. All right, I’m going to reach out to Jessica and set time in the calendar now.

Jessica LeNoble:
Sounds good.

Ben Bernstein:
Wonderful.

Stephen Semple:
All right. Awesome. Thanks for your time guys.

Ben Bernstein:
Thank you.

Dave Young:
Thanks for listening to the podcast. Please share us, Subscribe on your favorite podcast app and leave us a big fat juicy five star rating and review at Apple Podcasts. And if you’d like to schedule your own 90-minute Empire Building session, you can do it at Empirebuildingprogram.com.

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