Dear Reader,

The 5 Truths about Television in Your Media Mix

Here are 5 truths you must know before you start advertising with Television.

#1 – Highest Impact, Highest Barriers

“Doing TV well is really hard… and it’s never, ever, ever quick or cheap.”

TV has the power to move people like nothing else. But don’t kid yourself — it’s not simple, and it’s not cheap. Think of it like making a movie. You need months of planning, the right people in the room, and enough money to actually do it right. Skip those steps, and TV will fail you every time.

#2 – How to Buy TV That Works

“We only buy news and sporting events… The DVR is your enemy.”

If folks can skip your ad, they will. That’s why live programming is where the smart money goes. Local news and sports are still watched in real time. Repetition there — five, six, seven times a week — builds a name people actually remember. Scatter yourself thin across random shows, and your dollars vanish into the wind.

#3 – Cost Depends on Viewership, Not Your Company Size

“The number of viewers dictates the cost of the ad.”

TV isn’t reserved for the giants. Cost isn’t about how big your company is — it’s about how many people are watching. In some small markets, you can grab a spot for twenty or thirty bucks. That’s less than you’re probably paying for a single online click. So before you write off TV as “too expensive,” run the math in your own city. You might be surprised.

#4 – Show, Don’t Tell: TV vs. Radio Storytelling

“Anything you can say in a 60-second radio ad, you can put in a 30-second TV ad.”

Radio makes you explain everything. TV lets you show it. A logo in the corner. Text across the bottom. B-roll that paints the picture while the voice keeps moving. Layer upon layer. That’s why thirty seconds of good TV can do the work of sixty seconds of radio. Just remember: the world you build on screen has to be believable every single time. If it doesn’t feel true, people won’t buy it.

#5 – When TV Isn’t the Right Tool (and Why Courage Matters)

TV isn’t built for impulse buys or bargain hunting. National chains can pull it off because they’re spreading the cost across thousands of locations. Local businesses can’t. And please — don’t try to plug a slow week with a last-minute TV blitz. That doesn’t come across as clever. It comes across as desperate.

And here’s the part most folks don’t want to hear: persuasion takes guts. If nobody ever pushes back on your ad, you didn’t move anyone.

If you’re considering TV, run these 5 truths first. They’ll tell you whether it belongs in your media mix — or if you’re better off walking away.

Want help building your brand the right way? I’m here for you.

 

 

 

Watch / listen above or read below

Todd Liles: Welcome to episode 19 of Todd Liles and the Wizard of Ads. And today, what we’re gonna be addressing is, should television be part of your advertising plan? And I think that it could be, and in some cases, absolutely should be. But it’s going to depend on some factors, and we’re gonna unpack those today with Roy. He’s gonna make it crystal clear when you should consider it and when you absolutely should not.

The first thing that I want to discuss today is the high impact and also the high cost of TV, because this is what you need to know. TV delivers unmatched emotional impact, but it comes with a significant production and placement cost. Roy, today we’re diving into one of the most powerful forms of medium. Although we said that we know that message is powerful, but this is a powerful form of medium if you are committed and able to do it well, and it’s television. Today I want us to unpack when someone should consider doing it and when they definitely should not.

Now, our information is taken from three wonderful memos. Number one, A Comparison of the Nine Major Medias, which we looked at in a previous episode. Number two, The Fork in the Road on the Way to Truth, and How I Write Scripts for TV Ads. So let’s jump into it, Roy. Why do you say that TV delivers the highest impact of any medium, but also has the highest barriers to entry?

Roy Williams: Doing TV well is really hard. That’s one of the barriers to entry, and it’s never, ever, ever quick or cheap. Television, also, you don’t get to run as many different ads because it takes vast budgets, vast budgets to get real repetition on TV. And so ultimately, you’re gonna be reaching a little slice of the total television audience and you’re gonna be reaching them hopefully enough times to become a household word in the minds of the people you’re reaching. But you don’t just get to blast them with a machine gun like you do with radio.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: You have to be very deliberate, very determined, very specific, very well-planned. It’s not for improvisation or impulse. And so television requires diligence. It requires real work. And as a matter of fact, tomorrow I’ll be spending a few hours with one of my colleagues at 1-800-GOT-JUNK? , and we’re gonna be planning television ads that aren’t gonna air for like six or eight months. And so planning those ads and then producing those ads and then making sure that we’ve got it just like we want it and then knowing exactly when we want those to start.

Yeah, very few businesses are thinking that far ahead and building the ads that far ahead because it does take that amount of time, because you’ve got all kinds of the props. And then here’s what’s weird. There are certain businesses, if you’re gonna shoot outdoors, it’s gotta be the right season. And if it’s summertime, then the flowers need to be blooming and the trees need to be trimmed and the bushes need to look gorgeous. And it’s like making a movie. And so doing TV well is not like doing social media.

Social media is all about fluidity. It’s all about spontaneity. It’s all about handheld cameras and stuff like that. And people think because you can do that in social media, that’ll also work on TV. It can if you’re a genius of a character actor and if you’ve got enough personality to pull that off. But most of us don’t. And so my point is, I love TV. I write a lot of TV ads. I help the directors plan the scene. But it’s not for people that don’t have a lot of money and a lot of talent and a lot of time.

As a matter of fact, what you were referencing when you said The Fork in the Road on the Way to Truth, I actually begin that memo by saying, “Experience is the name we give to our mistakes.”

Todd Liles: That’s good.

Roy Williams: And mistakes are the result of bad judgment. But bad judgment isn’t made by people that are stupid. Bad judgment is usually a wrong interpreting of the facts. It is the creation of logic that led you to the wrong action. And so logic is the thing that usually causes you to make a bad decision because you didn’t have enough experience. And so experience is the name we give to our mistakes. And so whenever you say, “What is the value of experience?” you find somebody that has made every mistake that can be made multiple times, and their job is to keep you from having to make it on your own.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: And so you’re actually purchasing when you hire a person with experience like yourself. Why does a person hire your company? Why do they hire Service Excellence? It’s because you know all of the mistakes and you can keep those people from making those mistakes. It’s like, “No, we know the mistakes. Trust me, this never works out. This always works out. Do this instead, no matter how much you think this other thing will work better. We promise it won’t.”

Todd Liles: Roy, I would love to say that we can keep 70% of them from making the mistakes. 30% of them…

Roy Williams: Just insist.

Todd Liles: And afterwards, they’re like, “Oh, we did this. Is that bad?”

Roy Williams: Yeah. No, I’m telling you, I live in that same world. The point being, the thing that you learn from experience is that logic is not always the truth.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: Just because you can follow a logical path and get to this conclusion, that doesn’t mean it’s right. That means it was misapplied logic. And very few people are able to accept that something can make perfect sense and still be horribly wrong.

Todd Liles: Roy, I’m gonna stay on the topic of TV, but I am gonna tie in radio a little bit here because you’re such an expert on radio. Radio has a limitation. Just because of the amount of channels that are available, there’s limitations. So if you’re in a market, let’s call it 500,000 population market, how many viable radio stations, FM, would you say are on there?

Roy Williams: Okay. It depends on where that town of 500,000 is located.

Todd Liles: Sure.

Roy Williams: Okay. So let’s say we’re talking about Tacoma, Washington. Well, Tacoma is in between Seattle and Olympia, which is the state capital. Now, Olympia has some TV and radio stations of their own. Not a lot of people listening or watching those. They’re watching the ones out of Seattle. And so what happens is local news, you watch the Olympia station, perhaps, but what news is there in Olympia? And then even Tacoma. Tacoma’s at least a half a million. Tacoma is a big town. But still, everybody’s influenced by the Seattle TV and radio.

Todd Liles: Pretty much the same market.

Roy Williams: Yeah. We call Tacoma and Olympia shadow markets. They’re in the shadow of this huge flamethrower of a city, just blasts everything. And so if you go to a town of half a million people, say Boise, Idaho, Springfield, Missouri, something like that, they may have nine to 12 stations.

Todd Liles: Here’s the reason why I ask. And I know that we have to consider the type of station, right?

Roy Williams: Right.

Todd Liles: But I was at my in-laws the other day and they gave me the remote. I never get the remote. And at our home, we essentially, like a lot of people, we’re watching streaming for the most part. Well, my mother-in-law has all the television packages and I’m going, “Okay, I’m gonna flip through here.”

And I didn’t know how many there would be. There’s over 2,000. And I was looking and doing a semi-study and going, “Huh, 20% of these are ad-free, like your HBOs and stuff, but most of these are running ads.” And I found myself going, “Holy smokes, 2,000 shows all running commercials.” All of these are available for everybody.

There’s still your primary bases, your Foxes, your CBSs, your ABCs, that if you really want, like the TV upstairs, we can still get those things. But I found myself thinking, television has also sort of evolved. It’s not just your three or four stations anymore.

Roy Williams: I see. All those channels that you’re talking about that are streaming that have ads, that’s OTT.

Todd Liles: OTT, yeah.

Roy Williams: Over-the-top. And so whenever you’re looking at broadcast television, remember, I use massive amounts of broadcast television, but we only buy news and sporting events.

Todd Liles: There you go.

Roy Williams: You know why? Because the DVR is your enemy. And if people are going to watch something on broadcast television, if it’s not something that they prefer to watch live, they just DVR it and come back and skip the ads. And so you have to understand the limitations of every media and then how to either work with those limitations or overcome those limitations.

And broadcast TV is still monster huge. It’s just that there’s not enough shows that are on every day. And so when a show’s only on once a week, man, that gives you four, maybe five chances in a month to reach that same audience. Now, whenever people are finished watching this show, the audience goes 20 different directions. And so finding that same person again so that you can reach them with a second repetition, you don’t know where to look.

Now it becomes a deep, deep, deep dive studying when a person watches this show that’s on once a week, what percentage of them go to watch this show over here?

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: Now, the easy thing to do is just buy the 10 o’clock news.

Todd Liles: Yeah.

Roy Williams: And buy 10 o’clock news on NBC, CBS, ABC, or Fox. And guess what? Most of the people that watch that channel for their 10 o’clock news or 6 o’clock news, and I’m talking Midwest; on the coasts, it’s later than that, it’s 11 o’clock usually, but the point is that if they watch it, they’re gonna catch it at least three or four nights a week. And if you’re on every night, you’re only running five or seven ads a week, and you can become a household word just on one stinking newscast.

Todd Liles: And I love that you shared that with us because I’ve heard you share that piece of wisdom many times. Buy the live events that they’re not skipping. They’re tuning in, they’re checking it out, they’re watching it.

Roy Williams: They’re crazy expensive, but yeah, they’re awesome.

Todd Liles: But they’re watching them.

Roy Williams: Right.

Todd Liles: And I don’t have any data on this. It’s just pure intuition because the TV is always running at a few spots, like at my sister’s house, they basically are only getting whatever’s coming over the air. It’s always running at my in-laws’, and my in-laws are older, they’re in their 70s.

And if you go, what’s their position? Right? They’re at the age where essentially anything that’s gonna be done in the home is gonna be done by a home service company, whether that’s lawn control, pest control, plumbing, air conditioning, et cetera, right? And my observation, just for years watching and the shows that they watch, they are either watching the news, sporting events live, we’re watching sporting events live with them, that’s where the demographic gets in.

My father-in-law is watching old westerns, and the only thing that runs on old western advertisements are ads for insurance and gadgets for older people. Or they’re watching Home and Garden. And Home and Garden seems to be the sweet spot, just observationally. Lots of relevant type advertisements that are happening there. And it seems to be the same thing that these people that are in their 70s are watching, that people that are in their 30s, 40s, and 50s are watching. Just observation.

Roy Williams: Here’s what’s funny. When you start saying about broadcast television, specifically the news, you know what most of those people have in common, a real high percentage?

Todd Liles: Tell me.

Roy Williams: They own their own home.

Todd Liles: Yeah, there you go.

Roy Williams: And what I’m saying is…

Todd Liles: They care about it because…

Roy Williams: Younger people that are on the move and they’re doing things every night, out running around…

Todd Liles: They’re not watching that.

Roy Williams: They’re living in apartments, and they ain’t buying any hot water heaters, and they’re not buying any air conditioners.

Todd Liles: They’re at the life game. They’re not watching the life game.

Roy Williams: Exactly. And so whenever you say, “Well, how do you target homeowners?” Buy broadcast news. That’s how you target homeowners. It’s real simple. Or put a postcard in the mailbox. That’s how you target homeowners.

Todd Liles: Thank you, Roy. Roy, why is it so hard to reach the same person multiple times on TV when we know it’s very easy with radio to do that?

Roy Williams: Well, people on radio listen to two, three, or four stations. They’re loyal to the format. The music they listen to, they’re loyal to the station. Now, they can be listening to that station, time spent listening is about two and a half hours for the average person that does, in fact, listen to the radio, which is about half of the nation.

About half the nation spends about two and a half hours a day listening to the radio. A lot of that is when they’re in the car, or when they wake up in the morning, or when they’re in the lunchroom at work, if the lunchroom has a radio playing.

Now, the problem with television, nobody’s loyal to the station unless it’s a newscast. Other than that, they’re loyal to the show. And they’ll watch a show on ABC, and then as soon as it’s over, they switch over to Fox to watch a show there. As soon as that one’s over, they’re over at CBS to watch a show there. And so there’s zero loyalty to the television network except the news.

But yet a network will try to talk about, “Our viewers, our viewers, our viewers.” No, your viewers are the same as everybody else’s viewers. Your viewers are the same as everybody else’s viewers. Everybody’s got the same viewers. It’s not like you have viewers that other people don’t have. You all share the same viewers. It’s just when are they watching you, and when do they switch over here, and when do they go there?

And they don’t all go as a group. The people that watch this show always don’t watch that show, but some people do, and some people go over there. And then you go, “Huh.” So finding them, they scatter. At the end of every episode of every show on television, boom, that audience scatters, and they go a zillion different places.

And that just doesn’t happen on the radio. On the radio, they tune in, they’re there every day, and they spend meaningful amounts of time on that station. And so they’re very predictable with their radio listening habits. They’re very transient, seasonal, and flirtatious with their television viewing habits.

Todd Liles: You must also understand that there is a challenge when it comes to consistency with television, because unlike radio, where frequency is easy to maintain, TV requires a higher budget to achieve consistent repetition. So I’m gonna ask you a question that I know has a lot of moving pieces, so feel free to speak in generalities here. I want to talk about doing TV, but without blowing your entire budget. And the listener has to take into consideration all of these things that you just said.

So it’s getting rather layered, right? We’re sort of getting it. And I’m just gonna make a statement that was said from stages at this point 20 years ago. So it’s definitely old and outdated. But 20 years ago, I would hear people say, “Don’t even consider getting into television unless you’re already doing 3 million, maybe 5.” Now we adjust for inflation, we’re talking 10 million. I have no idea if those numbers are true anymore, and I don’t want to say that they are. But the point is that there’s an assumption that you better have a decent amount of revenue before you commit strongly to TV. Maybe that assumption is wrong.

Roy Williams: It is.

Todd Liles: Okay, so talk to us about it.

Roy Williams: It’s horribly wrong. Please understand. The number of viewers dictates the cost of the ad. And so the biggest show in a small or medium-sized town might have fewer viewers than a very small show in Chicago. And so remember, the same four networks, ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox, everybody’s got the same four networks.

And so any show on any of those networks, the cost of that ad doesn’t depend upon the size of the advertiser. The cost of that ad depends upon the size of the viewership. And so there’s lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of towns where it’s easy to afford television. And what’s hard is to be able to afford the ads.

Now, in a big city, you are being compared with advertisers in that city that have big budgets. Big cities have big businesses with big budgets. Now, when you’re in a town where it’s more modest, that you’re back to that 300,000 to 500,000 people sized town. Okay. I don’t know how well you know Adam Deatherage and Asia Gregg.

Todd Liles: Pretty well.

Roy Williams: Okay. They cut all the corners and they do improvisational production, very cheap. And it has these really memorable, goofy character ads that are just charming because they’re low budget and funny. They work hard at making sure people know, “We’re not trying to fool you, we’re trying to entertain you with how bad these special effects are.” Right?

And they’re geniuses at it. And the people they work for typically don’t have a lot of money to pay for TV production, and they don’t have to have a lot of money to pay for TV because they’re buying TV spots for 20, 30 bucks a piece. See what I mean? And when you’re buying television ads for 20 or 30 bucks and people in big cities are paying 200 or 300 or 500 for radio ads, see what I mean? It’s a sliding scale is what I’m saying. The cost of television depends entirely on the city you live in.

Todd Liles: No, I love that you’re saying that because when you say you might get a spot run in certain cities for 25, 30 bucks, everybody that is listening to this is going, “Holy smokes, I’m paying three or four or five times that for a click that doesn’t even guarantee someone’s gonna call me.”

Roy Williams: Right.

Todd Liles: So what type of impression are you reaching for $25?

Roy Williams: No, what I’m saying is, believe it or not, remember, when you’re in a smaller town, guess what you have? You have fewer big rich businesses with big budgets. And the personality, the vibe, the rules change entirely, entirely depending on the city in which you live. And so when you’re trying to make generalities about mass media, there are no generalities. There’s literally zero generalities.

And so people that don’t know what they’re talking about say, “Well, TV’s too expensive unless you’re doing this volume.” I’m going, “Please shut up. Please quit saying stupid things.” It just isn’t that hard to understand. The town and your media buyer determine how much media costs. And so make sure you have a good ad. That’s what never changes.

Todd Liles: I’m gonna tell you what it feels like the more I get to know you and the more that I’m learning from you. And even though I’ve been saturated with your knowledge now for over a year, almost going on two, I’m still learning so much. But what I’ve clearly taken away from, and I want the listener to know this as well, is that most of the time when it comes to what we’re talking about, generalities and rule of thumbs are going to ruin you.

Roy Williams: Yeah.

Todd Liles: This is more like a medical practice where the doctor is actually getting to know you and is writing prescriptions for you, and not only writing prescriptions for you, but actually designing the medicine for you. Let’s discuss the power of visual storytelling. TV combines the emotional power of sound with the visual power of images, making it one of the most persuasive mediums available.

Roy, a little earlier you were talking about Asia and Adam and their unique ability to do impromptu television ads, which keeps the budget low. But there are some unique things that television has to offer that radio does not. Can you talk about what are some of the unique advantages of TV as a storytelling medium compared to radio?

Roy Williams: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, now I’m gonna say something that’s not true 1000% of the time or even 100% of the time.

Todd Liles: Okay.

Roy Williams: But it’s usually true that anything you can say in a 60-second radio ad, you can put in a 30-second TV ad.

Todd Liles: I love this. I’m gonna interrupt for just a second. I’ve heard you talk about this. This thrills me. I can’t wait for the listener to understand why.

Roy Williams: Okay, so it’s real simple. So with radio, you’ve got the voice, your vocal inflections, your tone of voice, and you’ve got the words you’re using. Choosing the right words and saying them in the right order at the right speed with the right vocal inflection, et cetera. All of this is just stage acting, basically. But you’re behind the curtain. No one can see you. And then you said, “All right, then we can also have some sound effects and some little audio signatures.” Okay, cool.

Well, television, you have all of that, plus you can have a little image that stays on the screen, just your logo down in the corner if you want to. You know what I mean? You’ll see the networks do this all the time. It’s called a bug. In the bottom right corner of the screen will just be the little emblem of the network to remind you of who you’re watching. And then have you ever seen like when something’s scrolling across the bottom of the screen during a newscast? You’re watching the newscaster and then behind the newscaster are all these images that he’s talking about, they’re popping up behind him. And then scrolling across the bottom is some unrelated stories that are streaming by. And people follow all of that.

And so you can have screen text, streaming or static, and instead of naming the price, it can just pop up on the screen. And I’m saying, so all of these shortcuts where you can literally layer what’s called B-roll is just they’re looking at you, and then your voice continues, and you’re actually seeing what the voice is talking about. And then it comes back to the person, and it’s happened so seamlessly you don’t realize, “I’m not looking at Todd anymore. I’m looking at the thing Todd is talking about.”

And then here’s Todd again. And it doesn’t occur to you that one of those came on the screen, you don’t see Todd for a minute, but Todd keeps talking, and then it disappears and you’re seeing Todd again. And other images can pop up on the screen. So you don’t have to describe things to people. You can just show it to them.

Todd Liles: Right, just saves so much time.

Roy Williams: And that’s how come you can do in 30 seconds by showing instead of telling. You’re gonna show instead of tell. And sometimes you’re showing with video, sometimes you’re showing with static photographic images. Sometimes you’re showing with screen text or special effects. I’m going, “Yeah, if you forget all of these layers, you’re just gonna write a radio ad that’s illustrated.”

And I’m going, “No, don’t write a radio ad that’s illustrated. Understand all of the infinite tools you have available in television so that you can use those layers that don’t exist in radio to supplement what radio has.” And so it’s a whole wildly different way of thinking when you’re writing TV ads instead of radio ads.

Todd Liles: Roy, this weekend I went with my nephew. We watched the new Superman movie. It was great. Are you intending on seeing it?

Roy Williams: Yeah.

Todd Liles: Okay. Can I talk a little bit about the very opening sequence? I’m not gonna ruin it for you.

Roy Williams: Well, of course. You’re not gonna ruin it for me.

Todd Liles: They did something interesting in the opening sequence, which was they took sort of a Star Wars approach, but they didn’t do a scrawl. Instead of having scrawling information beforehand, exposition, they had just black screen with essentially just the words on the screen.

And in short, it said that 300 years ago, metahumans, that’s their word for superhero, metahumans were introduced to Earth for the first time. 30 years ago, the most powerful metahuman came to Earth as an alien from another planet, raised in Kansas. Three years ago, he introduced himself to the world and quickly became the greatest superhero. Three hours ago, he went into a battle preventing two countries from going to war. 30 minutes ago, he lost the first fight ever in his life.

And then scene: Superman falls to the ground. You don’t see the battle. You hear all about these things that’s happened all in 30. And I forgot, three months ago he intervened, three hours ago he got into a fight, 30 minutes ago he lost the battle. So I am watching that in the movie. It’s played over with a little bit of music, just real quick exposition, and then boom, he lands in the dirt. He just got the crap beat out of him. You didn’t see it, but you know what’s happened. And the movie’s going. An hour, 15 minutes, maybe even another whole movie they told in about 15 seconds. And it took nothing from it.

Roy Williams: Right.

Todd Liles: In fact, you were ready to go. You were excited. So it’s interesting to give you credit. It’s like what you do with 1-800-GOT-JUNK?. Brian whips out his banana phone. And maybe you have a radio ad that can describe that, but I’m not so sure. But that works beautifully in television. He’s got this magic banana. No matter if he’s in the grocery store or if it’s in the kitchen, he picks up the banana phone, he makes things happen. You have to see it, but it doesn’t have to be explained necessarily.

Roy Williams: Yeah, but here’s what’s interesting. Anytime you’re going to create… It’s called world building.

Todd Liles: World building.

Roy Williams: World building. And so anytime you’re world building, before you start writing scripts, you have to determine the rules of that world because it will not ring true if one day people can see him talking on the banana phone and they notice and they comment on it, and the next day people don’t notice it or comment on it. I’m like, nope. Either whenever he’s doing it, nobody notices, or everyone notices.

And so I decided, nope, he’s doing it, people are walking past while he’s doing it, but nobody ever notices the man’s talking on a banana. They just don’t ever notice. And so that’s an important part of that world. And I could go on for 30 minutes about that world. But the point is, when you’re creating a television ad, you’re creating an alternate reality. An alternate reality. And everybody that’s any good at television writing has to understand we have to create the rules of that reality.

And when you understand the rules that matter, and then you create, here’s why we’re going to use these rules, do we agree on the rules, then you explain the rules, and everybody has to understand the rules of this reality. Because in a big television show, Todd, there can be like 40 writers, and if they don’t all agree on the rules of this alternate reality, then they will always be introducing things that make no sense.

Todd Liles: Absolutely.

Roy Williams: And so, like I said, when it says, the media is the message, it’s like, no, the media carries the message. The freaking message is the message. And you can’t write the message until you understand the rules of the alternate reality, the reality that exists only in the imagination of the reader, the listener, the viewer, the customer.

When you’re building a brand, it’s not a physical thing, it’s a mental thing. And it’s kind of like, okay, what are going to be the parts of that, that stick in people’s heads? You don’t have to guess. You can know. And if you don’t know, you probably just need to keep doing Google AdWords.

Todd Liles: I love that. I’m gonna just bring it back to Superman. They cast a new actor and he does a wonderful job, and my wife is a big fan of the previous actor. She loves Henry Cavill. She thinks he’s a sexy, sexy man. She’s like, “I don’t want to go see Superman. It’s not Superman if it’s not Henry Cavill.” It’s like, “Well, you have the right to that opinion.”

She’s like, “Why they gotta change it?” And as I shared with her, I’m like, “Shannon, he’s James Gunn’s taking over with a new vision. This is a new world. He can’t bring the same actor into a new world. You won’t believe it.” You’re still gonna think it’s the dark Zack Snyder verse. It’s like, “No, no, he’s wanting to bring in a new world.” And I said, “It’s a new set of comics, so he’s gotta build a new world. He’s gotta start over.” So that’s why he can’t have any ties to the old stuff or it’s just gonna break your belief.

Yet, listener, you must know that sometimes TV is the wrong choice. TV isn’t always gonna be the right choice, especially if you’re in a business with a small budget or short purchase cycles. Are there any type of businesses that shouldn’t do TV? It doesn’t make any sense.

Roy Williams: Yeah. Generally speaking, if you have an impulse purchase and it’s something people buy every day, it’s a really short purchase cycle and it’s a really low-cost item. The only people who can use television when they’re in those categories are the national, national Fortune 500 brand leaders. Coca-Cola can do it, pizza places can do it, chain restaurants can do it because they’re able to amortize that expense over thousands of locations. I think there’s like 26,000 or 29,000 McDonald’s locations in America.

Todd Liles: Exactly.

Roy Williams: And so even though we eat every day, it’s a short purchase cycle, and even though it’s an impulse price point, they can afford to do TV because they can amortize it over such a vast number of contributors to that ad budget. But generally speaking, for local businesses, no. If you’re gonna do mass media, it’s because you have a long purchase cycle with a high price tag. And we were talking earlier about diamonds, engagement rings. Long purchase cycle, high price tag.

And so anything with a long purchase cycle and a high price tag needs mass media. And if you have a short purchase cycle and a low price tag, you can use anything. You can just write it on a… You can have the guy standing on a corner waving a sign at cars as they drive by the intersection. There’s a million ways to influence impulse purchases at no cost or low cost. And I’m going, but, yeah, you can’t do that with home services.

Todd Liles: And I appreciate you saying that. I had a second question, but you’ve already answered it. So I’m just gonna address it so the listener gets it real clear. Because there are times when people will say things like, “Roy, it’s only 88 degrees today. It’s supposed to be 110 in Austin. I need you to run an ad for me right now so that I can get replacement sales.”

And that’s a real bad idea, trying to use television to have a quick fix to a sales slump. It’s not gonna work. You’re not magically gonna create heat from the sun to make air conditioning systems break down, nor are you gonna be embedded in their thoughts. You’re just gonna spend money. It’s just gonna be wasted money for the most part.

Roy Williams: Well, here’s the thing. It’s worse than wasted because if you do get a message to people and it’s dependent upon today’s weather, that just makes you sound schizophrenic. That just makes you sound like a nut. So all of a sudden, everything you stand for and everything you believe in and all of these things that are supposed to be your guiding principles, all those go out the window when it’s unseasonably cool or unseasonably warm.

And I’m going, “Yeah, you chose to be in the air conditioning business, bud. Live with the weather. You knew it was gonna be a fact before you started this business.” You’re the one that decided to do this. The weather’s a thing. It’s not gonna quit being a thing, and you can’t defeat the weather. You gotta roll with it. And so can you make some outbound calls and do some things? Sure. But if the message of the outbound callers is frantic and urgent, it’s just gonna diminish and erode whatever reputation you’ve built for yourself.

Todd Liles: And value. If you call me frantic, “I desperately need air conditioning. My guys are available. Let me come by and blah, blah, blah,” it’s like, “Well, this better be cheap. It better be real cheap compared to what you’d normally charge.” Yeah, so disadvantage of power. Roy, thank you so much. Is there anything else that I haven’t asked you specifically about TV that maybe I should have?

Roy Williams: Everyone should investigate it because anybody who says, “Nobody watches TV anymore” is a fool. Anybody that says, “TV is always too expensive” is also a fool. And so millions of people, vast numbers of people, watch television. It can be extremely effective, and you should at least gather the facts instead of just listening to the BS people say to each other.

Todd Liles: Thank you, Roy. All right, I have an ad that I want us to watch, and I don’t want to introduce it. I don’t want to ruin it. I don’t know if you’re gonna like this one or hate it. We’re gonna watch it anyway. Listener, see how quickly you recognize it.

 

Guy One: Hello.

Guy Two: Hey, who. What’s up?

Guy One: Nothin’, B. Just watchin’ the game, havin’ a Bud. What’s up with you?

Guy Two: Nothin’. Watchin’ the game, havin’ a Bud.

Guy One: True. True.

Guy Three: Whassup?

Guy One: Whassup?

Guy Two: Yo, who’s that?

Guy One: Yo, pick up the phone.

Guy Three: Hello?

Guy Two: Whassup?

Guy One: Whassup?

Guy Three: Yo, where’s Dookie?

Guy Two: Yo, Dookie!

Guy Four: Yo!

Guy Three: Whassup?

Guy Four: Whassup?

Guy Two: Whassup?

Guy Three: Hold on. Hello?

Guy Five: Whassup?

Guy One: So what’s up, B?

Guy Two: Watchin’ the game, havin’ a Bud.

Guy One: True. True.

Roy Williams: Okay, that’s one of… That’s a really, really, really old ad.

Todd Liles: Old ad.

Roy Williams: Now, listen, I am not totally sure this is true. I think it probably is, but I have to confess, I never investigated it. But somebody that I trusted at the time told me that whenever they made that ad, they did not hire actors. Those guys all worked together. And whenever somebody, one of the writers, realized this little shtick these buddies did, none of the actors could do it.

Todd Liles: No.

Roy Williams: So they actually got… Those are actual buddies. Those guys actually do that to each other. That exact group of guys are actually friends, and they did that to each other. And it was a genuine thing they did all the time.

Todd Liles: I love that.

Roy Williams: And one of their friends found out about it and was in advertising, and he goes, “Oh, I’m gonna do that in an ad.” When he couldn’t get anybody to do it, they just cast the real guys. I’m gonna have to check into that and see if that was true.

Todd Liles: That sounds like it could very well be true. The thing that I like about it that resonates… I don’t know how old that ad is. I’m sure it’s 20 years old. I seem to remember…

Roy Williams: More.

Todd Liles: Yeah. I watched it as a kid, right?

Roy Williams: Yeah, I think it’s probably closer to 30.

Todd Liles: If we start breaking down the things that you just said, what I’m hearing is that it was authentically true.

Roy Williams: Right.

Todd Liles: These are real people just having fun. There wasn’t a whole lot said, but it wasn’t about what was said. It was about this friendly interaction with these friends. They’re having a good time. “What are you doing?” “Just watching the game.” They’re all having a beer. They’re not drunk. They’re just enjoying life and each other’s company.

There’s probably something to the way that they started it as the way that they ended it. I would guess there’s probably some sort of closure there. But the other thing that I was looking at as I was watching it is, once you knew what you wanted to say, anybody with an iPhone could shoot that commercial. No special effects.

Roy Williams: But here’s why nobody would.

Todd Liles: Yes, tell me.

Roy Williams: And here’s why that ad would never run today.

Todd Liles: Okay.

Roy Williams: Because some moron, some mouth-breathing, nose-picking, doesn’t-know-what-they’re-talking-about fool…

Todd Liles: I love it when you do that.

Roy Williams: Would talk you out of it. They would say, “But that doesn’t make sense. I don’t think I would respect a company that did something like that. You’re just wasting my time.” And I’m saying when you get a bunch of randos together and they all start evaluating ads, I’m going, “Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me.” Everybody that’s ever shot live ammo called real, real dollars that you had to be responsible for and answer for after they were spent, if you’ve ever played with live ammo in the game of advertising, raise your hand. If you ain’t got your hand up, shut up. Get out of the room. You got nothing to say.

But Todd, obviously, it takes my breath away when I listen to people who have never done it. They’ve never spent a dollar. All this stuff, they, “I think this is true and I think that’s true.” I’m going, “Please, get away. Get away from me. I want to choke you to death.” Because that stuff always works. It creates a bond. People just go, “Oh, these guys are so much fun. I have friends like that.” Friends like that are the most valuable thing in the world. It’s what makes life worth living. Friends you can just be yourself. And then it’s like, and what unites these buddies? They all like Budweiser and they all like watching the game.

Todd Liles: Absolutely.

Roy Williams: And it’s kind of like, “Oh, I got friends like that. They’re the best thing in the world.” And so all of a sudden, all these emotions are attached to that brand. And it doesn’t have to be beer. You can do it for any company in any category. It just takes some imagination.

But mostly, it takes courage. Because if you don’t have a client who’s bulletproof, their moron friends are gonna talk them out of it. And I’m saying, so finding an advertiser that has the courage to ignore the morons who don’t know what they’re talking about, those are the only people that succeed. And that’s how I filter people. I figure out if other people are gonna influence them, I’m out, Cub Scout. I’m not working for that person. There’s no way. Because they will always water down, weaken, soften. I’m gonna wrap it up with this. I know we’re probably over time.

Todd Liles: We’re good.

Roy Williams: But you triggered me, Todd. It’s your fault.

Todd Liles: I love it.

Roy Williams: Here’s the deal. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. Most ads are not written to persuade. They’re written not to offend. And whenever you start listening to all these people with opinions who tell you why they wouldn’t, “Oh, no, blah, blah” they will all drag you into mediocrity. They will all drag you into the center where you offend nobody and you reach nobody.

But anytime you’re doing something that has the real power to move people, it’s not gonna move everyone in the right direction. And if you’re not getting some backlash, your ad isn’t working. And so great ads get pushback. But you know what? You don’t have to convince everybody, Todd. You just gotta convince the majority.

Todd Liles: I love it. Okay, listener, that was a very powerful closing message from Roy, so I’m not gonna ask him what his final thought is because he gave it to us without request. Here’s my final thought to you, and this is something that I really want you to take away from this episode.

When you’re seeking the advice from someone when it comes to branding, marketing, advertising, chances are good, in fact, chances are very high, that if you just stop at the first person that you talk to, you’re probably getting horrendous advice. And if you talk to a bunch of your friends and they think that person is on the right track, then it’s probably wrong. You should give us a call.

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