Dear Reader,

A few months back, I told a young handyman — my nephew by marriage — he was charging too little.

He was booked solid, working himself to death, and proud of it.

“Raise your prices,” I said.

He hesitated. “Won’t that scare people off?”

“Good,” I told him. “You need to find the line between busy and profitable.”

That line is where most people lose it.

Too low, and you bleed.

Too high, and you break trust.

It’s not math that decides it. It’s empathy.

A diner owner once told a friend he was done. Too much work. Not enough money.

The advice? Raise everything by a dollar.

He did. Nobody complained. They already knew he was too cheap.

Sometimes the market knows your worth before you do.

But push it too far, too fast, and customers vanish.

Not because they don’t need you — because they stop believing you’re fair.

Price is a mirror.

It shows who you are, what you value, and how much you respect the people you serve.

There’s a sweet spot between greed and generosity.

That’s where real business lives.

If that hits home, that’s what this week’s conversation with Roy is about—The Truth About The Price Being Too High.

Watch / listen above or read below.

Todd Liles: Okay, listeners, we have an extraordinarily special episode for you today, and I’m going to call it How Pricing and Strategy Go Hand in Hand in Marketing. And here’s the real story. This was a side quest conversation that Roy and I had that was so good. I said, “Roy, we must turn it into an episode.” And so we did. So this is an extra special episode. We are going to talk about some very hot topics. You’re going to be surprised at what we talk about. We’re going to talk about how pricing structures can change, why they change, how they’re happening even when you’re not aware of it with people that you may be doing business with, and how perhaps even some companies are taking their pricing aggression too far. This might be the favorite one that we’ve ever done, and it was totally unplanned. So enjoy it.

Roy Williams: Todd, I came to a conclusion this week. I want to run it past you because in this category, you’re the expert.

Todd Liles: Okay.

Roy Williams: So I’m going to submit this to you to see if I’m on the right track or if you see it differently. Okay?

Todd Liles: Okay.

Roy Williams: One of the things that I’m being asked occasionally, and it always kind of surprised me when I’m asked, but I came to a conclusion and I said, “This is the only thing it can be,” and nobody wants to hear that answer. Okay. There are people in home services, out of the 307 companies that we collectively work with, that have said, “Man, cancellations are going up.” I said, “What are you talking about?” He said, “Well, somebody calls, we literally book the job, and then a few hours later they call and cancel.” And they said, “We’re seeing that increase and it’s a significant increase.” They says, “What do you think’s happening?” And I said, “You’ve raised your prices one notch too high.” And they say, “What are you talking about?” And I said, “The only possible way that a person gonna…” Said, “The reason they called you is you’re the name they thought of first and felt the best about.” And they got some real sticker shock when you gave them a number. And then they said, “Okay.” And then they went ahead and booked the job. But they kept calling around.

Todd Liles: Sure.

Roy Williams: Why? Because they said, “Man, that feels… That’s so much more than I was expecting.” Now, if you’re not seeing… In my mind, I just said, “Okay, if you’re not seeing an increase in cancellations,” because remember, if it was broken, they’re gonna get it fixed. It’s not like they decided not to fix it. They just decided that you’re no longer the one that they think is the right company. And I said, “The only conclusion I can come to is, you’ve gone up one notch too high on your prices.”

Todd Liles: Yeah.

Roy Williams: Do you agree with that?

Todd Liles: I think that that’s certainly probably very close to what’s happening. And here’s the reason why, what you’re saying is true. Pricing is two things. Pricing is an approach to make sure that you can actually successfully run a business. And then pricing is also a strategy. And if we look at pricing like a strategy, what we want to do is we want to find that sweet spot to where it’s super attractive, it makes us the profits that we need, it gives us the closing percentage that we need, and yet, at the same token, it doesn’t overwhelm our business, nor does it send people away.

And the thing that we’re having in the industry right now, which is something that’s come up in the last couple years and it never existed 20 years ago, is that there’s so much money in the industry and there’s so much information in the industry that lots of people are adjusting their prices when they haven’t even earned the right to do that yet. Now, I’m not saying that that’s happening with your clients, but at the same token, when there’s so many voices that…

I mean, used to be the golden standard was 15 to 20%. If you were 15 to 20% profitable on a business doing 3 to 5 million, you’re a superstar. Well, now the standards that they’re talking about is 25 and it’s 30%. And not only 25 and 30%, but I remember when technicians, if you adjust for inflation, were making 50 and 60,000. And I’m not saying they shouldn’t make more than that. They obviously should make more than that. But then you start getting them into a wage where they’re like 85k or 100k or 115k you go, “Hey, we’ve done a good thing here. Technicians are making really good money.” And then a technician comes around, and now they’re making 200 or 300,000. And it shifts like, “Well, hey, every technician should make 200 or 300,000.” I’m sorry. And there is a level to which you go, “Hey, maybe we’re getting a little greedy.”

Roy Williams: Well, here’s the thing. I’ll share it this way. Have you ever noticed how many people, when they go to Vegas and win big, they tell the whole world, but nobody comes home and talks about when they got clobbered and just lost a ton?

Todd Liles: I talk to those people, Roy.

Roy Williams: The same thing in the stock market. And so whenever people are like, “I did this thing and we’re killing it, and we’re amazing and we’re superstars and we’re leaders,” well, they’re quick to share those things. So somebody goes, “Well, I want to be like that guy. I want to do what he did.” Well, then whenever it tanks and they start having, I mean, really alarming, alarming increase in cancellations. I’m not talking about single digits. I’m talking about really startling increase in cancellations going, “What, what, what, what? What is this?”

And I go, “I can only speculate.” But the only thing that I can figure out is it rocked their world when you hit them with that price. And they just kept making calls. They found another company they’d never really heard of, but they have confidence that it’ll get done and they’re going to get the thing that they need, and this is the price they’re going for. And I said, “So there is a point at which you say, is there such a thing as a price too high?”

Todd Liles: Yes.

Roy Williams: Because this illusion that you’re only limited by your own confidence, I’m going, “Eh, the customer has a voice in that.” The customer gets to decide whether they agree with the level of your confidence.

Todd Liles: There absolutely is such a thing as a price too high. And before anyone rakes me out over the coals, I’ve always been an advocate for technicians and salespeople and CSRs having the best lifestyle they possibly can in the industry that they’re in. And I’ll give you one more example of this. My… I want to call him my nephew. He’s not my nephew. He’s the husband of my niece. I’ve mentioned him before on the show. Started a handyman service, and it’s just going absolute gangbusters. So he called me and said, “Hey, Todd, I’ve got way more business than I can manage right now. And at this point, I’m like two weeks out. I’m so overbooked, and I think it’s time to hire someone new.” Now, Roy, he’s like in month four.

Roy Williams: Wow.

Todd Liles: And he’s doing a great job. And I’ve talked to him about his prices, and I said, “Isaiah,” I said, “That’s exciting. Congratulations. Look how good you’ve done.” I said, “But let’s talk about your prices for just a second.” And he goes, “Okay.” I said, “Are you using the margins that we’ve talked about?” “Yes, I am.” “Well, tell me what you’re paying yourself.” Not enough. Not enough by the hour. “Margins? Yes, I am using the margins.” You dig in a little bit deeper. Not exactly the margins.

And then I say, “Isaiah, when you bring on a new team member, what that’s going to do to you initially is going to drain so much of your energy and management in trying to teach them what you know that it’s going to reduce your sales volume as a whole, even though you’re bringing them on to increase it.” I said, “So that’s not a bad idea, and you gotta get there.” I said, “But before you get there, you just told me you’re not charging enough.” “I’m not.”

I said, “So now you want to add a second person and you’re already not charging enough. Now you’re adding a second person that you’re not charging enough for and ain’t as good as you. Does this sound like you’re gonna make more money or less?” He goes, “Definitely less.” He goes, “So you’re saying I should raise my prices?” I said, “Yeah. What’s your closing percentage?” “It’s 100%.” I said, “You need to raise it until it drops to like 90%.” I said, “Go out and raise it 20% now.” I said, “You’re nowhere near. Raise it 20%. Keep raising it and keep going with your skill level until you get to on service about 80, 85%.”And I said, “When you hit about 80, 85%, guess what’s happened? You’ve probably raised your prices to where they need to be. You’re putting money in the bank, you’re building reserves, and you’re not getting 100% of the jobs because you found where it’s at.”

So, Roy, what a lot of people are doing, even on things like service, is like… And that’s sort of a benchmark. If you’re at about 80, 85% conversion on service, you’re probably at the right price, you’re probably doing a good job, you probably have well-trained people. A lot of people eject their prices up so much they don’t care if they get a 50 or 60% conversion on service because they’re like, “My prices are so high, it’s double what it used to be when I was at 80.” And I’m going, “Yeah, I get it, but in the long run, that reputation is going to get out and that phone call will stop ringing. That phone will stop.”

Roy Williams: There is another side to what we’re saying. There is a price too high. Close friend Don Cool lives in Carson City, Nevada. And every time I see Don, we go to this diner, and it’s huge and it’s fabulous and the food is amazing. And Don was in there one day within the last six months. And the guy told him… And Don is the guy, super successful, and every time he goes and eats anywhere, I don’t care if it’s a $12 check, he leaves a $100 tip. That’s just Don.

And so we were there, and he was telling me the story. The guy came over and he’s all happy and he’s talking to Don, and I said, “Don, what was that about?” And he goes, “Well, a few months ago,” he said, “he was telling me he was going to have to close the restaurant.” He said he was really bummed he’s going to have to close it. Working too many hours, not making enough money. And he said that it just wasn’t making any sense anymore and he was going to have to do something else. This is an institution. And Don goes, “Dude, how many times have I told you to raise your prices?” He goes, “No, people wouldn’t pay it. We’re charging the most we possibly can right now.”

And he goes, “I promise you, you’re not charging enough.” He goes, “Everything, everything, you’re not charging enough. And I’m telling you, I’ve always told you I don’t think you can make money at the prices you’re charging.” And he goes, “Well, people would not pay it.” And Don said, “Listen to me. You’re thinking about closing anyway, right?” And he goes, “Yeah.” He said, “Let’s reprint these menus and we’re gonna add $1 to every item. A cup of coffee is a dollar more than it was. A Coke is a dollar more than it was. Fries are a dollar more than they were. Anything you order is a dollar more than it was yesterday.” And he says, “Print ’em up. Same menu, everything goes up by a dollar.” Okay?

And then the guy does it. He has nothing to lose. And the next time Don sees him, he’s just walking on air. He goes, “I’ve only had one person even notice.” And he says, “And they didn’t mind.”

Todd Liles: No.

Roy Williams: He says, “Nobody cared.” Everybody goes, “Oh, this is great.” And he says, “Zero pushback. Nobody cares.” And he goes, “Evidently they all knew it was too cheap.” And he goes, “I’ve been telling you it was too cheap.” And so there are plenty of people like your nephew who do need to be charging more. Lots of people in lots of categories. But there is also a price too high. And you know you got there when you book jobs and then you start seeing cancellations just really skyrocket.

Todd Liles: Yep.

Roy Williams: And that’s at least that’s my conclusion.

Todd Liles: What’s sort of interesting now is when you think about the quality of what you’re providing for the price that you’re charging. And I think this is a little bit indicative of what’s going on in America right now. And I know that there’s inflation here, right? But when I was a teenager and for a brief stint I worked at McDonald’s in the mall, while I also was doing other things, I just always had multiple jobs. I can remember you get a two cheeseburger meal, it was like $3.15. Now, guys, this is ’97. I get it. It’s a long time ago.

But even prior to COVID, that meal was only about $5.25. Now that meal is $10 in five years. And at a certain point, it’s like if you go to McDonald’s, you expect consistency, and they do a good job of that. But it used to be that it was consistent, fast, cheap food. Now if you step it up and you go to Chick-fil-A, you’re gonna spend $15 on a chicken sandwich, fries, and a drink. And if you’ve got a family of four there, you’re dropping $60. You can step into a restaurant and get a sit-down experience still for that today.

Todd Liles: And if you look, Chick-fil-A’s line is full. McDonald’s line is still full. So over the last five years or so, Americans have been conditioned to pay more at the cash register. But those payments haven’t kept up with salary increases and other things. And not every company has also adjusted to those levels. So this is a really deep topic and it’s a really important topic. So the point of what I was saying about that is that, I think there is a fair justification for a very wide range of prices for services in plumbing,

Roy Williams: Absolutely.

Todd Liles: Electrical, and air conditioning.

Roy Williams: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Todd Liles: And I think that fair justification of range has a lot to deal with the level of customer experience that they’re getting in the field and the level of customer experience that they’re getting outside of the field. If you have a company that makes a promise like, “We literally stand behind our work and when we make this repair for the next year, if you call us at any point in time, we’re going to be there same day,” I expect to get that, and I’m willing to pay more for that.

Roy Williams: Now, without giving up acceptable margins, the person who’s leading the way on that, in my opinion, the people in my sphere of observance, Aaron Gaynor at Eco in Ohio. Three towns in Ohio. Aaron just created an ad and he’s talking about toilets because he came to the conclusion there’s a lot of people who live in a three-bedroom, two-and-a-half-bath home, 1,600 square feet. America is made of those houses.

Todd Liles: Right.

Roy Williams: That’s every neighborhood, every town has an infinite number of those houses. And he was saying, “This is what the average income of that household is.” And he started talking about the current prices of service. He says, “We do not want to out-price huge categories of our customers.” And so he just made the decision, “We will find these products. We will find them, the ones that we can install and make a profit at the price that these people can afford.” And he just created this ad and it’s about toilets. “This toilet is $650 installed. This one is $6,500 installed. This is the difference between the two toilets.” And we have several in between. And so you don’t…

Todd Liles: He’s got a $6,500 toilet?

Roy Williams: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Todd Liles: Does it wipe it for you?

Roy Williams: Well, it sings and dances, it shines your shoes, it plays the Pledge of Allegiance on the 4th of July. No, it’s a…

Todd Liles: It’s probably one of those really nice, bidet-type toilets.

Roy Williams: Yeah, I was in Goodrich when they sent me videos, five or six years ago, and he had this video of this new toilet that he had. And it’s that one… Back then it was 5,000 and something, 5,000 and change. And I made so much fun of him. I gave him such a hard time about that toilet because it does all these things. And so one day, one showed up at my house in a box, and he just had one delivered. And Pennie goes, “Yeah. Yeah, we’re keeping that.” She said, “Remember that hotel we were in? They had one of those.” And so she bought another house with a special guest bedroom where she could install that toilet. I don’t use it. It terrifies me. But they exist, and they’re amazing.

Todd Liles: You know, when you finish, it goes, “Yay!”

Roy Williams: Yeah, it does. It’s crazy. But what happens is there are plenty of people who want that, the ultimate high-tech, crazy, crazy toilet. And there’s other people who can’t afford a $1,000 or $1,100 toilet installed. And so Aaron goes, “No, we will have solutions for these people. We’re gonna.” And he just decided, his whole team, “Let’s find this stuff, let’s vet it, let’s make sure we can stand behind it, but we have to hit these price points.”

And so this is a guy, because he came up the hard way, is very, very, very in touch with the masses. And he’s not making the assumption that everybody can afford everything if you just talk ’em into it. He goes, “Nope.” He goes, “There are some people who just need a basic solution to get a basic thing done, and that’s all they can afford.” And he goes, “We have to be prepared to serve those people.” And I admire him for that.

Todd Liles: Absolutely. When you look at pricing, what you just said there is, if you’re offering a $6,500 toilet, that says, “I know that I have clients that want high-end things and they can afford them.” That’s totally fine. And I think this really boils down to internally what your strategies are, because I think it’s just as close-minded not to have those options. And you go to a $5 million home, a $10 million home, you’re there with someone who’s been amazingly successful, they have a business, they’re in sports, whatever the case may be, they’ve been blessed, they have an abundance in their life. And to only show them the cheapest of cheapest toilet options that you have when everything in their house is the best of the best, it’s like, that’s not good customer service.

And at the same token, if you go to a 1,200-square-foot home and you don’t even let them know that you have that option, it’s insulting. But you also need to let them know that, “I do have the $650 option.” And this is what we teach about options, right? Is that you can’t project your assumptions on people.

What we must do is give the people a range of things that they may like, they may want, they may desire, and they may afford, no matter how they may afford that. And for the listener that’s going, “Oh, you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one side over here you’re saying have affordable options and don’t be priced too high, and on the other side you’re saying have many options that people can choose and some of those are the best.” And that isn’t talking out of both sides of the mouth. It’s saying that the world is big. 

And if you’re going to serve a marketplace, you need to have solutions that go across the marketplace. But I will say one thing, Roy. I don’t know if you’ve seen this. I thought it was a joke, but apparently it’s not a joke. There are some companies that are doing a very private practice now in a very public way. And here’s the private practice.

Shannon and I live in a nice neighborhood, and it’s got security gates with security cameras before you come into the neighborhood. And we worked really hard to get there. And by the way, we got the cheapest neighborhood in the house in the worst condition, and we fixed it up…. We got the cheapest house in the neighborhood, I should say, other way around. We fixed it up. We bought this house for 432. It’s worth a lot more than that now. 432, you go, “Well, that’s a cheap house, Todd.” Well, we’ve been here almost 10 years.

But there is a price that we get for services that is substantially different in that house than the prices that we used to get for our other house. There is a non-public change in price. Roy, do you know that there are real stores that are actually charging more money, not just by location, but they’re charging more money to their consumers based off of things that we would consider to be inappropriate, like what’s their zip code? They know that they have more money, so they’re literally charging them more and they’re being transparent about it, in a standard store. It’s like, “Roy, I know what your zip code is, so this couch is going to be $1,000 more because you can afford it.” That sounds like that’s false, but it’s not. It’s true. It’s happening.

Roy Williams: This is… Well, it’s more pervasive and more obvious and more widespread than you think. Because when Pennie bought her Tesla, there was a $7,500 rebate available. And then we went in there and we bought it, and they said, “Oh, yeah, you don’t get that.” Said, “Why?” They said, “Well, you make too much money.” And then several things, other things that the IRS gives you and things that even with, like, when I turned 65, “Cool. Now I have Medicare, right?” No, not so much. It’s like Plan G is a supplemental thing you buy. It’s $129. But Medicare is tied into the IRS. And so I’m going, “Okay, cool. So now I got Medicare, and I pay $129, and that equals what I used to pay a couple thousand dollars a month for, right?” Nope. It’s not $129 for me. It’s $800 a month.

And so everything is adjusted according to your income, and it has been for a long time at the government level and at the major corporation level. And you find out, well, damn, this is widely advertised. And you can ask Google, and it will tell you these things. Then when you go, they go, “Yeah, not you.” And so what I’m saying is, is there a double standard? Yes. It irritates me, but does it make some level of sense? Kind of does.

Todd Liles: I kind of hate it. I’ll give you the example, but I won’t put the company out there because people are listening to me and they think you must be making this stuff up. I went looking for flights from my IP address, and it was giving me certain flight information, certain dollar amounts. And I asked one of my assistants from a different IP address, “Hey, will you go check this out for me?” Not because I was worried about the price, because I was just going to have her book it for me. These are the flights I’m interested in. She came back. It was wildly different prices, like substantially different prices, like in half.

And I’m going, “That must be an error. Are the dates right?” And I sent her the screenshot. She sent the screenshots back to me, go, “No, they’re right here.” And I’m going, “Wait a minute. That can’t be right. Are you using the same sites?” “I’m using same sites.” It recognized that my address, my IP, and my credit card and all that stuff is… They’re just charging me more. Actually, now that I think about this, I had this happen to me in real life, and I just saw that one of the airlines had to testify in front of Congress about this practice, of which they denied. But I’m telling you, Roy, I’ve experienced it in the last month. So we got off on a tangent here, but I don’t think that’s right. I think if a flight costs $159 on this date, whether you book it in my gate or whether you book it in Houston out of a townhome, it should be the same price for the person. If it’s the same seat.

Roy Williams: I understand the fairness of that. I also understand that at some level in society, there has to be some… Instead of a penalty for the rich, if you think about it this way. If people right now who haven’t gotten a raise in the window of time that the meal at McDonald’s went from $5 to $10. See what I mean? And suddenly their lifestyle is being seriously altered through no fault of their own. It’s just that we can raise these prices, so we did. A lot of things jumped up during COVID, but then they never came back down. See what I mean?

And I’m saying, okay, so if you’re going to try to give a little bit of a safety net for people at the bottom level, how do you do that? And they see that’s the awkward part. So I’m saying I understand getting slapped when you’re up at the top, but I’m going, okay, there does need to be some relief for the people close to the poverty line. And I’m going, and I’m not sure how to do that. I don’t have an answer. I’m just saying I’m aware of the fact that not everybody really has an equal opportunity. We like to pretend they do. And I know this will piss a lot of people off. I’m sorry. But I sit back and I go, “Gosh, if you’re concerned about the people at the bottom, I’m not sure how to give them a break.” But I’m going, “Should they have one?” I’m going, “Yeah, they really kind of should.”

And now we’re back to Aaron and him saying, “We will have.” He told them a $700 toilet. They came back with one that they could sell at the right margin at $650 installed. And he said, “Well done, team.” And they’re doing it. And I said the idea is to never forget that there’s infinitely more average people than there are above average people. And when you start plugging into your head, if you sell to the classes, you will live with the masses, but if you sell to the masses, you will live with the classes. And so nobody gets rich by selling rich people. Well, if you make your living serving the rich, you’re either a butler or a chauffeur. But if you make your living selling to average people, then you’re rich. And most people lose sight of that.

Todd Liles: There’s this TV show that I’ve never seen, but I’ve seen the cutaway segment of it. It’s a Louis CK television show where he’s sort of running a bar. And who was the tall guy on M*A*S*H that has a very unique voice? I think his name’s like Alan something.

Roy Williams: Alan Alda.

Todd Liles: Alan Alda. So he’s one of the bartenders at this bar, and a guy came up and ordered a beer, and it was $4.50. And then he starts complaining. He goes, “$4.50? You charged him $3.” This guy that’s sitting at the end of the bar, sort of disheveled. He goes, “You charged him $3. Why am I being charged 4.50?” He says, “For you, it’s $4.50. For him, it’s $3.” He goes, “That’s not right.” And then he starts raising his voice. And then Louis CK steps in and goes, “Hey, hey, what’s going on?” He goes, “He charged me $4.50 for a beer, and he only charged him $3 for a beer.”

And Louis CK says something along the lines of, “Yeah, like, where do you live? You probably live downtown Boston in one of the duplexes, right? Like in a high-rise.” He goes, “Yeah.” He goes, “That guy just lives around the corner, sometimes on the street.” And he goes, “So?” He goes, “You came in here because you thought it was ironic to come check out a small-town bar with your buddies, right? It’s just sort of like, ‘Oh, we’re really gonna do this. It’s gonna be neat.'”

And he goes, “Yeah.” He goes, “That guy comes in here because he has to.” And so the guy that’s complaining about it goes, “So you’re telling me it’s like a douche tax?” And he goes, “Yeah, it’s a douche tax.” And he goes, “Okay, I can live with that.”

Roy Williams: Oh gee.

Todd Liles: And he pays the bill and he walks away. So you have a point. I think my general thing probably just comes back to some sort of rooted sense of fairness, which is… And here’s what’s interesting about my rooted sense of fairness, and what’s going on in my brain is that’s where the options come in. Give someone an option that they can afford. But if that toilet is $6,500 and that’s because it’s a beautiful toilet, it seems like it shouldn’t go up for me unless you had to go an exceptionally far distance out of your way. Then I go, “That makes sense. You had to travel two hours to put it in. It’s not around the corner.” That makes sense to me.

But at the same token, if I was in the 1,200-square-foot home and I said, “I’d love the $6,500 toilet. I can’t afford it. It would be like a luxury item, but if I could ever have one in my life, I would get that.” And they go, “Well, what if we did it for five?” If I really, really wanted it and I said, “Yes,” then they were being fair to me. It doesn’t mean they were being unfair to someone else. So I see your point. And I suppose we’ll just end it with I still think a flight should be a flight should be a flight.

Roy, that was one of our famous episodes, which is a Roy Unguided Adventure, as you like to call them. Roy’s Unguided Adventure. So on this topic of pricing strategies, what is the one big takeaway that the listener should take from today’s episode?

Roy Williams: Pricing is about the business and the profitability of the business, but pricing is also about the customer. And if you are thinking only about the profitability of the business and you abandon any thought of the customer, then you’re out of touch and there will be consequences for that. But at the same time, if you are so aware of the struggles of all the people around you, you’re in danger of over-focusing on that and not making any money. And so there’s a very fine line.

And I’ll tell you this, Todd, we shared a lot of personal feelings in this, and there was a lot of different ways that you and I were looking at things. And I promise you, this crosses a line with an enormous number of people that they’re going to think that, “Oh, they believe,” or, “He believes,” or, “The other one believes something totally wrong,” and they’ll be outraged by it and feel that they need to tell us.

And I’m going, when you start talking about pricing and when you start talking about rich people and poor people and people in between and who can and can’t do certain things and how some adjustment may or may not be made, without meaning to, you’re talking about hot topics that go very, very deep in people. And I’m sitting here going, “Hey, man, I hope we survive this.”

Todd Liles: So listeners, if you’re still here and if you have deep emotions about it, here’s what you need to know about Roy and I on both sides of this page. No matter which side of the financial spectrum that you fall on, chances are if you’re listening, it is because you are actually hoping to grow your business and you want to improve. And this is what you need to know about both of us. We actually really deeply care about you or we wouldn’t be putting these messages out. You wouldn’t believe the amount of time, energy, and money that we put into these shows for you.

So here’s the thing. Simple call to action. If this show offended you in any way, email me at todd@toddliles.com. I promise you I will read it and I will write you back and I will be really empathetic and I will listen to your concerns. And if you weren’t offended by this and you actually want to talk to me because there were things that I said, that Roy said, that said, “Hey, that makes sense to me,” and you want to visit, then email me and I will make that time for you. By the way, even if you were offended and you still want to talk to me, I’ll make that time. And that’s because we actually do care.

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