Listen above or read the transcript below.

Dennis Collins: What I like about this, these are honest conversations. These are conversations meant for business owners and business founders. And the goal of these honest conversations is for you to make better decisions. We’re here. It’s Paul, it’s Leah, it’s Dennis. We’re here on Connect and Convert to connect you with the things that business owners, business founders are thinking but they rarely say. They’re afraid to say them. Okay? And we are here to connect you and convert to the honesty, the truth of naming those issues because until you name them, you can’t do anything about it. So we’re doing a series on confessions of small business owners and founders, and we chose the sales bucket, if you will, the sales arena. And first of all, hello, Boomer, hello, Leah.

Leah Bumphrey: Hey, Dennis.

Paul Boomer: Dennis, Leah.

Dennis Collins: Glad to be back together with you. We’ve got another true confession. There are things founders think every single day but they never say out loud. We have a combined… Well, I said it on another podcast, I’ll say it again, 100 years of experience. I have 97 of those, and… No, no, no, that’s not true, that’s not true. But my point is that they never say these out loud, their fears, their doubts. Gee whiz, why isn’t this working out for me? So Connect and Convert exists, Dennis, Leah and Paul exist so that we can help you say those things out loud, so you can name those things because until you name them, you can’t fix them. We work with owners who are winning on the outside but are wrestling mightily on the inside in here. And that’s why we’re here.

So let me start off today with another confession and let’s see if you’ve heard this one. I am constantly worried as a business owner that we are one bad quarter away from disaster. I don’t know what our sales process is. To be honest, I don’t even think we have a sales process. I don’t think we have one. What we call process looks like a bunch of random activities and people like us sometimes, they don’t like us. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t work.

And when I listen to sales calls, I do listen… I hear a lot of pitching. I hear a lot of talking, a lot of explaining, and I don’t hear a lot of questions and I don’t hear a lot of listening. And you know what really bothers me? I can’t explain why some of my salespeople win and some of them lose. I am frightened to death that my revenue stream could fall apart at any moment.

Leah Bumphrey: Holy hell. That’s a lot of stuff. That’s a lot of stuff. Let’s define our terms, gentlemen.

Dennis Collins: I know. I guess I should go to the shrink and try that. But it’s cheaper to go to Connect and Convert than go to the shrink. So let’s see if we can deal with it. Paul, what have you heard?

Paul Boomer: I’ve certainly heard that a few different ways and different times, and it is a very painful thing. So the confession isn’t about a bad quarter necessarily. It’s about not knowing whether the last one was luck.

Dennis Collins: Right. It’s fear.

Paul Boomer: Exactly. And it’s not a sales fear. It’s a control of reality fear.

Dennis Collins: See, Paul has those phrases. Control of reality. Now, you’re gonna have to define that for us.

Paul Boomer: Well, you want to feel like you have control of reality, of your surroundings but you don’t have it. And when you feel like the past quarter was luck, that’s not control. That’s… “Well, I’m just kind of going with the flow here, and if something breaks, I won’t see it coming.” They want to be able to see it coming. So it comes out to a control of reality, fear.

Leah Bumphrey: It also feels really good to be able to say, “We don’t have a process. It’s this, it’s this, it’s this. We don’t have a process.” It feels good to say we don’t. You have a process. Yeah, because there’s no responsibility in not having a process, right?

Dennis Collins: So your point is…

Leah Bumphrey: “I don’t have a plan. I don’t have a diet. I don’t have a fitness regime. I don’t have a gym membership. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t.” Yes, you do. You just realize it’s crap, it’s crap.

Dennis Collins: Okay. So let me make sure I understood ’cause I think this is an important point. You have a process. It could be accidental or on purpose. Is that what you’re saying?

Leah Bumphrey: Everyone has a process, a way of doing something. You have a process.

Dennis Collins: Okay. My confession in this confession is I don’t know what the process is. In fact, my confession is I don’t even know if we even have a process. But I hear what you’re saying. But do you know what I’m saying as a business owner in my confession?

Leah Bumphrey: Right. You’re not defined. You have not defined your process.

Dennis Collins: So I have an accidental sales process.

Leah Bumphrey: Yes. And that’s an easy fix.

Dennis Collins: Oh, no, it isn’t. Not for me it isn’t.

Leah Bumphrey: Oh, it’s a very easy fix. Start writing down the 10 things that you do. Work it backwards. You got a sale, and the 10 things that happened for you to achieve that sale. You just work it backwards. That’s your current process.

Paul Boomer: Okay. It is.

Dennis Collins: Leah, I love you. Well, just one thing, and Paul, then. I just love Leah ’cause she always has a solution, but I don’t think my head is ready for a solution yet. I’m still struggling with this. Boomer, talk to us.

Paul Boomer: Well, and that’s what I was wondering is I want to hear, Leah, what do leaders, what do sales managers and owners tell themselves when they’re in this position of yeah, chaos.

Dennis Collins: Yeah. What do they tell themselves?

Leah Bumphrey: “I need more accountability from my people.” That’s what they say. But they’re mixing up the word and the people are mixing up the manager or the owner’s request for accountability with the word consequences ’cause nobody wants to be in trouble. “It’s not my fault I missed that sale. It’s not my fault… It’s not my fault…” Nobody wants consequences because that, for me, right here in my stomach, I feel it and I stop and it’s like, “Ah, this is no good.”

But the person that I’m working for, the owner of the business, wants accountability. They want to know, am I following their process? Am I following what they’ve said? The first step is defining what actually is happening. What is the de facto process? And it probably is something different between all three of us. Like between everyone on the team, everyone’s doing something different. You have the outlier. You have the one that is just going by the book. You have the one that is just in freefall. You have the other one that is enjoying the flex time and just kind of, “As long as nobody knows what I’m doing, the numbers are looking good.”

Dennis Collins: Okay. But Leah, that’s all well and good, but let me… Here’s my fear. You just described my sales team. Okay? Everybody’s doing their own thing, right?

Leah Bumphrey: Yeah.

Dennis Collins: So good old Dennis comes, “Okay, guys, we’re gonna have a sales process now. It’s not gonna be accidental, it’s gonna be on purpose. And here it is. Read it and weep, ’cause you’re gonna follow this or get fired.” Right? That’s accountability, right?

Leah Bumphrey: That’s consequences. You are saying, “You do it my way or there’s gonna be consequences,” so everyone’s gonna do it their way, even the ones that this might mess up.

Dennis Collins: But you gotta have consequences, Leah. If you set something in motion and have no consequence for either performance or non-performance, it has no teeth.

Leah Bumphrey: You cannot have consequences before you know what is happening, what is working, what isn’t working and why. You can’t.

Dennis Collins: Well, how do I find it out?

Leah Bumphrey: Well, we started this with our business owner saying, “We don’t have a process.” And I said, “Yeah, you do.”

Dennis Collins: You do. Okay.

Leah Bumphrey: And maybe it’s a crappy process, but that’s where you do the backward. What is happening? How did Leah make the sale? How did Paul make the sale? How did Dennis make the sale? You have those conversations and you define something that then creates real accountability, a real opportunity to move forward.

Dennis Collins: Okay. So let me make sure I’m hearing this right, Leah, and I’d love Paul to chime in on this too. You’re saying you’ve gone back to it three or four times, so I think you really believe this. You have got to document in reality what’s really going on first, no matter how ugly it is. You gotta document it. Is that what I hear?

Leah Bumphrey: Oh, for sure.

Dennis Collins: Boomer. Yes?

Paul Boomer: I don’t have much to add only because I believe very much the same thing, clarity. You must have clarity.

Dennis Collins: Okay. Clarity.

Paul Boomer: Clarity in the process, clarity in who you are, clarity in what you do, why you do it. All those things are required to understand the consequences like Leah said, to understand what consequences matter, what doesn’t matter. And that’s just as important.

Dennis Collins: Wait, I’m gonna jump on that, Paul. You just said something critical. What’s important and what’s not important. Did I get it right?

Paul Boomer: Yeah.

Dennis Collins: What does that mean in regards to a sales process?

Paul Boomer: So, of course, as Leah said, there’s sales processes that are documented and there are sales processes that are just mentally kind of chaotic.

Dennis Collins: Accidental, accidental.

Paul Boomer: Whatever. This sounds like a good idea. And if you let’s say… I think you and I have talked about this, Dennis. If you have consequences for one thing, for one person and that consequence is different for somebody else, or you look at somebody else and look at them with different expectations, just like a child, you’re gonna cause chaos. So you must understand what is it that matters to you that is consequential or inconsequential to the process, to whatever.

Dennis Collins: Define your terms.

Paul Boomer: Yeah, define your terms. And wasn’t that said earlier in this conversation?

Leah Bumphrey: Oh, yeah. That’s one of my favorite quotes. “Define your terms, gentlemen.” It came from some, probably Monty Python.

Paul Boomer: I think you’re right.

Dennis Collins: Is that who you quote when you’re in trouble, is Monty Python?

Leah Bumphrey: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Paul Boomer: That’s brilliant. That’s brilliant.

Leah Bumphrey: Let me see. Yeah, that’s one of them. There it is.

Paul Boomer: There you go.

Dennis Collins: Monty. Okay, I’ll remember that.

Paul Boomer: If you don’t know what matters and what doesn’t matter, then you’re still in chaos, even if you have a documented system. You have to go even deeper than that. What matters? What doesn’t matter?

Dennis Collins: Can I dig deeper on this, guys? I appreciate what you’re saying.

Paul Boomer: No, you can’t. No, you can’t because we have to tell our listeners that you have created this beautiful downloadable.

Dennis Collins: Downloadable, yeah.

Paul Boomer: Downloadable thing.

Dennis Collins: It’s downloadable thing, yeah.

Paul Boomer: This downloadable thing. And I’m sorry, I’m dealing with a head cold. I’m just… I’m here, but…

Dennis Collins: The Sales Trust Playbook is what it’s called. The Sales Trust Playbook.

Paul Boomer: And I trust that you can explain it.

Dennis Collins: And I can. This was designed specifically for business founders and business owners who find themselves in a little bit of a quandary. What the hell should I do about sales? I know I’m not doing the right stuff. I have issues. I have these confessions that I’m making, and I don’t know what to do. Well, guess what? This playbook will get you started. It’s seven easy steps. In 30 minutes, you can digest it. In a half a day, you can implement one, two, three, or four of those easily, okay? And that is going to make an instant difference in your sales. So give us a try.

Leah Bumphrey: It won’t even make just the difference in the sales, ’cause that always comes later. That comes after implementation. What it does is it gets rid of this fear of not knowing how you’re gonna proceed. It’s like this fear of this could all fall apart at any moment. When you’re a kid and you’re building a sandcastle, you get big and big and big, and you don’t know when that sucker’s gonna go but when it goes, it’s gonna go big and it’s gonna go hard.

Paul Boomer: So it goes…

Dennis Collins: Yeah, but I used to have people knock mine down. I don’t know.

Paul Boomer: So it goes from “we don’t have a sales process” to “we don’t have a shared way of making sense of what’s happening.”

Dennis Collins: Oh, see, once again, a shared way of making sense. I love that phrase. A shared way of making sense.

Leah Bumphrey: Are you talking about the team sharing?

Paul Boomer: Yes. I’m saying, going back to our previous conversation, our previous confession, the leader stepping in as the best salesperson there, well, they have the sales process stuck in their head. Okay, well, document it and then share it so that we have a shared way of what’s actually happening or not happening. Because if you don’t include other people, well, your people are just there doing what again?

Dennis Collins: They’re random.

Leah Bumphrey: So are you talking about the dreaded Monday morning sales success story?

Paul Boomer: Oh, hell no.

Dennis Collins: The Monday morning sales…

Leah Bumphrey: But I feel so good when I’m able to… And it doesn’t just have to be about business, it can be about personal too but we want everyone to have a positive… Can you play the violin for me, Dennis? A positive moment that you can go back and you can share and everyone is going to feel… Okay, and I don’t mean to make fun, because sometimes you’re just frigging excited to say, “Hey, I did this.” But that is the worst. Like that just… I get all itchy inside when I even think about it.

Paul Boomer: I agree with that.

Dennis Collins: You just hit something, Leah. I don’t know if Paul’s ever been victimized by the Monday morning sales meetings.

Paul Boomer: Oh, yes.

Dennis Collins: Leah and I have either conducted them or been in them.

Leah Bumphrey: We have lived the dream.

Dennis Collins: And it is… That is a topic. Would one of you guys note that as another confession that we need to talk about? The Monday morning sales meeting that everybody hates, including the guy or gal who’s running it.

Leah Bumphrey: Oh, particularly those poor people.

Dennis Collins: But they’ve been told by their suit up above them, “You will have a Monday morning sales meeting,” right?

Paul Boomer: Hey, and I’m gonna put just a little spin on that one is…

Dennis Collins: Spin it.

Paul Boomer: From my point of view as promotions and marketing director of nine radio stations, I had to sit in those meetings and just eat it. I had nothing to say other than…

Dennis Collins: I remember that very well ’cause we all came from a radio background or maybe still in it but yeah, I had my promotions people attend sales meetings. I’ll bet to this day they hate me for that.

Paul Boomer: They do. They do.

Dennis Collins: Yeah. They do. I got some more questions. So you guys are really helping me on this. Okay. So we documented what’s really happening. Okay? What is the process? Whether it be accidental or on purpose, we now know what’s happening. And now we say, “You know what, there are 20 things that are happening and 18 of them are bad.”

Okay. So we have to create a new process. And we go out and can we do that ourselves or do we need help to do that? However we get it, we get it and we now have to install it. What’s gonna happen to my team when I announce in one of those special Monday morning meetings, “Here’s your new sales process?” What’s gonna happen?

Leah Bumphrey: A lot of coffee meetings. They’re all meeting at different coffee shops in about an hour and a half.

Dennis Collins: So the meeting after the meeting is the real meeting, right?

Paul Boomer: Yeah.

Dennis Collins: And what is gonna be said in those meetings? Help me with that.

Leah Bumphrey: Change can be the most invigorating, exciting opportunity for greatness.

Dennis Collins: In whose world?

Leah Bumphrey: I love change. I love something getting mixed up. Oh, absolutely.

Dennis Collins: Okay, let’s talk about those who don’t. Okay?

Leah Bumphrey: And that’s the big but. If you think that as a sales manager, as an owner, that you are gonna just enforce this great big bucket of change on people without reason, without their opportunity for feedback, without showing the clear purpose, oh, it’s so sad. The human brain can only absorb so much. So there’s gotta be three things you’re trying to achieve, there’s gotta be three things that you’re trying to do and it’s not a to-do list, it’s a tactics list. What are your tactics to achieve this and how are you involving them so over time, it becomes clear what it is that you’re trying to do. But I am not a fan of passing out the memo that now we’re doing this. You have to be open.

Dennis Collins: So not all… Okay, can I go one step further? It sounds to me like you’re not a fan of that and you’re also not a fan of just mandating a sales process and not installing it, making sure it is understood and followed. Would that be fair?

Leah Bumphrey: There comes a point when you have to install it. There comes a point where this is what we are doing.

Dennis Collins: Yeah.

Leah Bumphrey: Okay. But it’s not right at the beginning. If you don’t have buy-in, if you don’t have a reason, if you’re not able to point to the successes of why you’re doing something and baby steps towards it, I think you are asking for a full-on revolt. And it will be from the people who you need buy-in from, the ones who are successful.

Dennis Collins: Let me ask you guys this question. Maybe those people that were involved in this accidental sales process need to go anyway. Now what do we do? Do we just fire them all and hire a new staff?

Leah Bumphrey: No.

Dennis Collins: What do we do? How do we do? What do we do?

Leah Bumphrey: Well, how do you know that they need to go on if you know that your process has been wrong?

Dennis Collins: Well, you’ll know in about two weeks if they’re pushing back on the process. Maybe sooner.

Paul Boomer: That’s not fair. That’s not fair to them.

Dennis Collins: Okay. Can I give you a personal story?

Paul Boomer: Yeah.

Dennis Collins: Okay. I’ve done this numerous times during my career. Thirty seconds after the meeting is over, my office had a line outside the door. “Hey, this is bullshit. We can’t do this. We’re not gonna do this, okay? This is crazy. Why are you doing this? You just want control of us. You just want to keep tabs on us.” So how do I… That’s my personal experience. I learned as I matured that there are other ways to do it. But we’re talking about the bosses now who aren’t comfortable doing this, they don’t know how to do this. What do we tell them?

Leah Bumphrey: When you’re looking at a process, and again, we have to define terms. I’m not talking about a how-to of making a sale. You start with the end in mind, okay? Everyone has their quota, okay? That quota means you have to talk to so many people. This is your average sale. This is what… If your average sale is 10 bucks and you need to sell 100, guess how many sales you need over the course of the year, you gotta have 10.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, the metrics. Yeah.

Leah Bumphrey: Knowing that and breaking it down, that’s part of the process and having everyone understand that the whole idea behind any change is to help you sell more, help you service more. So you start with the end in mind, and then we are gonna define a few things about how this is. We need to know, for example, how many face-to-face meetings you’re having, how much new business development you’re doing, how many tech turns you’re calling on and the results, and getting that information. Everybody’s part of that. You’re still not… You’re not doing this, you’re doing this.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, you’re talking about a lot of metrics, Leah, but I see a sales process differently. I see it as a mindset. I see it as a framework, not just hitting certain metrics. That’s how you know you’re following a process. But developing a repeatable sales process is an art form in itself. I don’t know if you guys ever dealt with it, ever built…

Leah Bumphrey: Well, a repeatable process…

Dennis Collins: A repeatable sales process.

Leah Bumphrey: Yes. But not every individual. I promise you that your way of selling is different than mine, is different than Paul’s, is different than everyone who’s listening. So that’s why it’s the big British book of what is it that we want to accomplish and then how do we do it?

Paul Boomer: So I’m gonna bring us back on track ’cause I feel like we’re kind of going sideways here.

Dennis Collins: Yeah, I think we’re… Yeah, pull us back.

Paul Boomer: Going back to the confessions and the Monday morning, “This is how we’re gonna do it” type of BS. I honestly… And I think this… You mentioned the Monday morning sales meeting as another episode. I think this warrants another episode because this is change management and change management is a whole degree in college. So we’re getting into things that are really seriously heavy stuff that requires some heavy thinking.

However, our listeners don’t have time for that, of course. So let’s bring it back to how do we help our listeners go from we have a system… Now we’ve kind of documented the system and we know, “Okay, we have some things to work on.” How do we go from there? What’s the next step from “We know we have a system, we know we have a problem?” Now what?

Dennis Collins: Let me make a suggestion. We have our freebie that you can get by going to connectandconvertpodcast.com, right Paul?

Paul Boomer: Yes.

Dennis Collins: Okay. But let me… You just gave me another idea for another freebie. And it’s not available right now, but I’m thinking about it. Why not do a freebie on how to create a repeatable sales process? Would that be helpful? Step by step, here’s how we do it. Would that be something our small business owners would like to hear?

Paul Boomer: I think so. I mean, certainly…

Dennis Collins: It’s a start.

Paul Boomer: Yeah, it’s certainly a start.

Dennis Collins: It’s not a finish but it’s a beginning. I don’t know.

Leah Bumphrey: Well, and we’re not talking about a business plan, we’re giving ideas. Because it is so dependent on your team, it’s so dependent on your business, how much information you want to have back from your team, how much consulting, how much you want them to say what they would ideally like. We are sponsored by wizardacademy.org and it’s important to remember that small businesses are as unique as everyone. This is not cookie cutter, a small business.

Dennis Collins: True. No. But you know what I have found, Leah, you’re absolutely right. But there are certain frameworks that you can apply to any business. You know what I’m saying?

Leah Bumphrey: I agree. Yeah.

Dennis Collins: I mean, there are 10 things that if you’re going to build a sales process, these 10 things have to be in there but the way it sounds in your business and the way it sounds in Paul’s business would be totally different. It’s the same concept. It’s just a different way of phrasing it. Does that make sense?

Leah Bumphrey: And for the owner to be open to change. That as a sales manager, as an owner, as a leader, even a mentor of other salespeople, are you open to what is currently happening or what you think should happen being challenged? People have a hard time with that.

Dennis Collins: Oh, but say that again. Capture that.

Leah Bumphrey: We really have to be aware as leaders, any kind of leader, whether you’re an owner, a mentor, a founder, that we don’t want to be challenged. We think we know the right way ’cause it’s always worked for us but what has worked for us may not. I have an example. I moved within industries to a different company. And the initial company I worked for, they had this matrix, a monthly matrix of figuring out what was likely in terms of projected sales. And it involved who you had pitched and a percentage. I’m 80% sure, I’m 100% sure, this guy’s 50% sure.

Okay. It was 100 years ago, but it worked really well. Moving over with the new company, I shared this with a group of managers. They didn’t understand. “Why are you showing us this? We’ve never done this before. This makes no sense. No, no, no, no, no. How can you assign… You’re giving too much power to the salespeople.” It was like, okay, I am surprised ’cause to me, it was at least a talking point, at least a way of realizing that I may think this is gonna close as a salesperson but how sure am I? But they were challenged. They had never heard of it before. And that’s just sad.

Paul Boomer: So let’s say a leader has created this, their process, and they’ve designed it and they’ve found some holes and such. Once they start getting it in place, once they start actually communicating it and let’s say that they’ve already started the change management process. What changes inside the leader? Because we’re not necessarily selling right now, we’re not selling results to our listeners, but we’re selling groundedness. We’re selling, “Okay, I’m now a leader of an organization or a sales manager of an organization that can function in a more manageable way.” So what happens at that moment?

Dennis Collins: Good question.

Leah Bumphrey: When you are cooking something and it turns out terribly, how do you know why it turned out terribly? You go back to the recipe and you go, “Oh.” I remember one of the first times, I’d probably been eight or nine, and I cooked a cake and it was like it wasn’t working, it wasn’t working. I forgot to put the flour in. At the most basic of things, but it was runny and it was like, what the heck? What did I do wrong? I forgot to put the flour in.

How did I know that? Because there was this… And it wasn’t a recipe that was scary looking recipe, it was pretty basic. You need this and this and this. Same thing with the sales process. The person now who has said, “No, this, I’m owning this,” they no longer need to be scared. They know if something’s not working, what did we not do? What did we not do? What’s missing?

Paul Boomer: So one of the first things that changes is how the leaders and coworkers listen to each other.

Leah Bumphrey: Yes.

Paul Boomer: And coaching becomes more specific instead of emotional. Right?

Dennis Collins: Right.

Paul Boomer: Because winning stops feeling like luck and losing stops feeling like doom.

Dennis Collins: Yeah. Well, again, it’s the buy-in process. The only way I was ever able to install new sales processes was to get some buy-in. Why should I do this? I’m very comfortable, happy doing what I’m doing. Why should I bother? This requires me to get outside my comfort zone. So I think the manager has to become a master of influence, shall we say, a master of influence.

Leah Bumphrey: Oh, I like that. That’s very good.

Paul Boomer: You’re talking about me having some words, phrases. Come on. Right there.

Dennis Collins: I get one for every ten of yours. But anyway, this has been a great session, guys. We’ve covered a lot of ground here. I think it got down to me for to the mindset. If you have a fixed mindset as opposed to a growth mindset, okay, you’re in trouble because you’re not going to accept change very readily. I like to hire people who have a growth mindset. Is there a way to find out if they have a growth mindset? Yeah. Their background, what they’ve done in the past and the all-important face-to-face interview. We can find out who has a growth mindset or who doesn’t. And again, that’s another freebie. Someday we’ll send you that one where I had to learn that the hard way, so I’ve got scars.

Leah Bumphrey: But also being able to explain the why. The why something is working, why someone is being successful.

Dennis Collins: The purpose. Yes.

Leah Bumphrey: And the why not. Because often, especially people new to sales, but I don’t like cold calling, Dennis. I do not like getting people. I like when they call me. I don’t like initiating it. Am I gonna be a success? Can I be in sales?

Dennis Collins: Depends on what industry you’re in. A lot of industries, Leah, as you know, don’t do cold calling at all anymore. It’s nothing.

Leah Bumphrey: No. So inside sales is different. But knowing that, knowing that, okay, you know you’re not talking to enough people, then at least as the person mentoring, managing, owning the company, you can go, “Okay. Leah is not gonna do good at this ’cause she just, she can’t hack what needs to be done and we know what needs to be done.

Dennis Collins: And in future confessions, I can give you a little hint, we will be talking about that. The selection process. How do we know we’re hiring the right people? We’ll be talking about that because a lot of people have confessed to me they have no clue how to hire people. Okay. So stay tuned. Tell us how to like and subscribe, Paul, all that technical stuff. I don’t know how to do that.

Paul Boomer: Well, it depends on where you listen to us. I mean, you can listen to us on Apple, on Spotify, on Captivate. You can watch us on YouTube, our pretty faces, especially Leah’s. And hit like, subscribe. Really, what we really want is for comments because comments allows us to really tailor this to you and allows us to answer the questions that are being asked. And all of these conversations that we have are based off of our knowledge and all our conversations we’ve had out of our, I’m sorry, more than 100 years worth of knowledge and expertise. But hearing what’s going on today really matters, especially with the addition of AI and other areas that weren’t part of this. So today’s confession shows up when a leader no longer trusts their own understanding of how the business really works.

Dennis Collins: Absolutely. Well, again, guys, all good things must end. We must end this version of this episode, I should say, of Connect and Convert. Remember this. This is where the conversations finally happen. This is where they happen. Stay with us. Most founders don’t need more advice. They just need a place for honesty. Connect and Convert will deliver. Stay tuned for the next episode of Connect and Convert. For Dennis, Leah, and Paul, see you next time.

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